Cricket

yeah lets all let cheats do what they like and let them away with it

are you ian wright?

i get your point LJ that in the context of cricket the specific thing they did didn't really affect the game and in a weird sense isn't that big of a deal.

on the other hand, they were part of a criminal conspiracy to defraud. if they were under pressure or are being scapegoated in some way then presumably that will come out in the trial. saying nobody is really a victim of a gambling conspiracy is ridiculous: (1) there are truly victimless crimes that are still crimes (2) had it worked, this would not have been a victimless crime.

it's heartbreaking w/ amir but ppl shld know if u go down this road u may never play again

it's just not cricket

caek totally otm again

basically, this shit has been happening CEASELESSLY, especially w/ the Pakistan cricket team, since the 90s. don't blame the individuals, blame the system. help the individuals. sure, punish them or whatever for their conspiracy (although what sort of punishment could fit something as puny as this? in fact when does state punishment ever really work DIFFERENT THREAD), but don't ban the kid who was 18 from ever playing again! he's not the problem! what kind of message does THAT send anyway - 'don't trust anybody or you'll end up banned'

ffs

no, let's NOT let people ride roughshod over the systems of betting (unless they're robert redford amirite) to gain an unfair advantage over those unaware of the conspiracy, and let's combat this by stripping them of their illicit earnings, but unless they're either cheating (which this ISN'T, you're being very crude in your analysis) or destroying the competitive element of sport, or fostering (i.e. not naively participating in) a climate of dishonesty, they are still an asset to the game.

let's be clear, I am all for the PCB handing out life-bans to Asif and Butt, fuck them

don't fuck around, play cricket, is the msg

you cant let one guy off just because he is a special player. what kind of message does that give out??

banning those two and keeping aamer is a positive message. 'we forgive those who were led into corruption, but we cannot forgive those who lead there'* - it's not that aamer is a more special player (asif is just as good) but it's that HE'S A KID

*I am all for eventual forgiveness here too but it'd be very hard to imagine these two trusted on a cricket field again, especially Asif with his record

don't fuck around, play cricket, is the msg

― zvookster, Friday, February 4, 2011 2:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

good message.

you cant have one rule for some and another for others. It will just lead to kids being targeted by crooks being told dont worry they wont ban you due to your age.

and yes, a very good message.

We don't know the ins and outs of this case yet, if there's a sort of Cronje figure (or figures) leading the others astray, do we?

lj how do you know so much about the details of the internal structure of the conspiracy? is there a good article i could read? or were you involved?

18 y.o. is plenty old enough to take responsibility for your actions in a criminal case. obviously the punishment may be influenced by things like age, but no idea why cricket would be different.

It will just lead to kids being targeted by crooks being told dont worry they wont ban you due to your age

Except in all likelihood, Aamer wasn't targeted by the crooks directly, but through the senior players.

I've been reading Cricinfo, don't have much more detail to hand. Am going mostly on gut feeling. Samiuddin is a great writer: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/current/story/499507.html

Am going mostly on gut feeling.

pro-tip: not a good idea for an LJ unless he's learning to troll again.

well yknow I get very emotional about these things. aamer needs a (1) break, then we can talk practicalities.

5 year ban? absolute bullshit. Will probably get overturned too. You can cheat and resume your career in a few years , great example sent out to youngsters.

get over yourself

he didn't cheat the game of cricket

5 years is harsh on Amir, should have been 2 or 3 at most. either that or 'a final warning'

pfunkboy you see everything through the same fire-and-brimstone lens, please try and get some perspective about this

surprised and pleased to see the other two aren't life-banned, although this effectively ends their playing careers

anyone watching the final?

listening.

Off to see Fire in Babylon tonight. Friend saw it at the film festival last year and said it was excellent.

Fire In Babylon looks amazing. I hope it gets a decent release. As a lifelong West Indies fan, the trailer alone is pretty emotional.

Not a West Indies fan as such, but yes, also get emotional about the period. I know the reduced participation of subsequent generations of the West Indian diaspora in cricket, both as players and spectators, is down to a lot of different things, but it's always a cause of anger to me the way that English cricket, esp at the Oval, has done absolutely nothing to try to maintain or encourage locals to come and see the cricket, and instead rammed the prices up and made the purchasing of tickets a matter of booking as far in advance as possible.

Causes for hope - One of the things I like about the current West Indian team is that they have several talented players who seem very enthusiastic and keen to win - Bishoo, Darren Bravo esp. Some thrilling players, and I hope the one-day results are reflected in the Tests as I think most cricket fans would like to see a strong Windies team.

Apparently the film's being made mandatory viewing for all West Indies cricketers. Bravo and Bishoo both have huge potential and seem to have the right attitude. The real frustration since the mid-1990s is that there has never really been a lack of ability in the squad. There's a lot of talk about basketball taking the place of cricket in schools throughout the region but cricket remains hugely important and that's reflected in the raw talent that so many young players show. What's missing has been leadership and mental toughness. That's down in part to the players but also the fault of the shambolic organisation of the team. I'll keep the faith though.

Sri Lanka making this match interesting with an impressive collapse.

Wow.

oh my

love to see this in test cricket

http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/133500/133562.jpg

England are going to win this :-)

They definitely are now. LJ sorely missed.

He certainly knew his cricket.

hahahaha the crowd look like morons now

well played india

im assuming it came from 'upstairs' in India's association. Id bet strauss woulda appealed but the ecb/mcc woulda gone nutso. LJ if youre reading this, i bet you think dhoni was right to appeal but had strauss done so you would have taken the opposite view ;)

I was in the crowd today at Nottingham. Pretty amazing stuff- we didn't know what was going on until Bell walked out again, then everyone started clapping, which was a strangely moving experience.

Also, Prior and Bresnan were taking the Indian bowling apart at the end of the day, the latter looked really, really ragged. I predict more pain on that front for the Indians tomorrow.

Looking that way. Sharma looked miserable as Prior knocked him for boundary after boundary. England look to have nothing to lose at this point but need to be wary of the rain predicted for Tuesday. Let Prior reach his tonne and then declare?

forget about the rain just keep going and scoring quickly. wkts could still tumble 1st thing so just pile em on. the more runs we get, the longer we can keep close catchers in. Also pitch should still be good so dont let india bat while it is. Make the game out of their reach if possible then you still have 4 or 5 sessions to bowl em out, esp with 3 of those on a last day pitch. Dont let them get to 250-2 on a 4th day.

but yknow they could bowl us out in 20 mins tomorrow so in other words dont think about declaring, just bat the whole session scoring quickly as possible then think about it.

LJ?

forget about the rain just keep going and scoring quickly.

Agree with the latter statement but not the former. They were batting like it was a last wicket stand at the end of today anyway but Strauss, based on his ballsiness in the previous test, is not going to want Prior/Bresnan/Broad/Swann to bat all day if it means drawing the game rather than winning it. If they can get to 450 before lunch then great but if not he should still put India in and have a bit of confidence in his bowlers.

lj probably wanted to declare when bell was repreived

anyway IF they can get to 450-500 lead then they should. While its a good pitch take advantage, dont give it to india. A good start on a flat pitch could give them belief.
It all depends how the pitch plays in the morning. If its misbehaving then a declaration wont come into it, just get out there and pile it on. Theres 2 days left. They shouldn't even be thinking about declaring til lunch.

you dont give a batting line up like India 2 whole days to get 400 runs. They could plod along taking no risks and make that in plenty of time esp if the pitch plays like today. Dravid and Tendulkar could knock that off in their sleep. Game would be almost over by close of play then.

450+ should be impossible though, esp if they have to bat through a whole 5th day to survive.

If an England captain had done what Dhoni did yesterday, i.e., withdraw the dismissal of an Indian batsman, then watch his team get absolutely murdered in the subsequent session, likely lose the match and potentially the series, he'd be getting crucified now - Atherton, Nasser, Vaughan, none of those guys would have done that. Strauss maybe...

So, yes, everyone is all lachrymose and sentimental over the Spirit of Cricket as long as your team wins!

of course. still makes football look like a vile, barbaric game by comparison.

also this tbh:
England batting coach Graham Gooch on Test Match Special: "We hope to bat to around lunchtime and then with such a huge total the pressure will be on India, but we'll need to bowl well and some of their batsmen are in good form."

Dravid gone, game over IMO.

Time for a cheeky little double hundred from VVS methinks!