a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

gj max!

this event is really interesting to me in how much "see, bush was right!" is a minority opinion on the right.

no real mystery there. they only wanted to expand democracy to um, gov'ts we don't actually like. whereas Mubarak was a bro/friend of Israel, etc.

This event is really interesting in a lot of ways, but IMHO the reaction of the American right-wing is not one of them.

like, Syria, Iran, yeah let's get rid of 'em! Egypt and Saudi and Jordan, eh not so much.

xp

ugh Suleiman on state TV mouthing total lies is really disgusting

This event is really interesting in a lot of ways, but IMHO the reaction of the American right-wing is not one of them.

― Super Cub, Thursday, February 3, 2011 10:58 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

well, fair enough, but, you can't really talk about egypt w/o talking about america. $billions a year since camp david is part of the story. those are abrams tanks in the streets, you know? plus, i'm in america so this is the environment i'm in.

fascination with a narrow spectrum of showbiz righty-pundits: The Official Hobby of ILE Politics Posters

yeah, i admit to being interested in the reaction across the spectrum of united states political thought.

but i think you have a point -- here, and in general -- that it's in some sense a smug mocking excercise to focus on the reaction of the hard right, or it's silly pundits, or the tea party.

yeah, as i say, dr. m has a point.

This event is really interesting in a lot of ways, but IMHO the reaction of the American right-wing is not one of them.

I don't get this at all. What the right wing in America thinks, however wrongly, is immensely important to Egypt.

pundits only speak if they think there's a constituency for it. do you think general american opinion is any different, morbs?

I'm trying to get my head around various scenarios for how this will play out and I'm kinda stuck between a) Mubarak being strung up by angry mob and b) army cracks down, death toll increases dramatically, Mubarak (or Suleiman) stays in power. If the latter happens, I can't really figure out what the US position will be. If the former happens it's pretty obvious how the US will react (condemn the violence but attempt to deal with whatever interim gov't steps in)

feel like it's very possible now that mubarak will continue to indirectly ramp up the violence in the square until he can plausibly go on tv and tell the general egyptian people that The Protesters' Anarchic Violence Has Forced His Hand and that he's cracking down For The Protection Of The People. i don't know how far the army is out of his pocket at this point but i can see them helping him clear the square in a situation like that. hope not.

this suleiman guy (who is all kinds of interrogating cia-prisoner-rendering creepy) is supposed to give a speech soon. the tone/reception of that--not just by the protesters but by the country--will matter.

yeah I share your suspicions

xp

oh and xp i think the reaction of the Beck/Palin/Corner fringe right is pretty irrelevant here--interesting only as the primal scream therapy it usually is. (not saying i don't indulge.) the maneuvering of the actual american government is much more important, like people have said: all that money.

well, and all that arguably legitimate nat'l interest, too.

well right yeah.

This event is really interesting in a lot of ways, but IMHO the reaction of the American right-wing is not one of them.

I don't get this at all. What the right wing in America thinks, however wrongly, is immensely important to Egypt.

― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:15 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

fascination with a narrow spectrum of showbiz righty-pundits: The Official Hobby of ILE Politics Posters

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:13 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark

I'm not saying the reasoning of the right-wing policy establishment isn't important. Clearly it is. I guess I just don't like belittling the significance of this event by making zings about how stupid Rush Limbaugh is. But I don't want to be a dick about it.

difficult listening hour OTM

andersoncooper. Situation on ground in #egypt very tense. Vehicle I was in attacked. My window smashed. All ok.
1 minute ago

pundits only speak if they think there's a constituency for it.

HOW MANY PEOPLE WATCH FAUX NEWS? 6 MILLION OUT OF 310 M?

http://www.deadline.com/2011/02/fox-news-team-severely-beaten-hospitalized-in-cairo/

this going ham on foreign journalists development is unusual no

brilliant non-answer morbs. as always.

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/01/playing_catch_up_ball_5_steps_the_us_should_consider_taking_with_egypt

(via Sullivan)

Given the recent rise in wheat prices, #4 might be very astute.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/egypt-hacked-vodafone-to-send-pro-regime-texts/

!! classy

muslim brotherhood speaks

"We demand that this regime is overthrown, and we demand the formation of a national unity government for all the factions," the Brotherhood said in a statement broadcast by Al Jazeera.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world/middleeast/04brotherhood.html

A. Cooper 10 mins ago:
Situation on ground in #egypt very tense. Vehicle I was in attacked. My window smashed. All ok.

Vodafone was whining about that this morning, iIrc, goole.

any anderson cooper update u guys, totes worried abt our silver fox

is this still going on god hurry up already egypt

my dad, taking exception to a snide comment i made in an email about "the american media" probably only covering "palin's reaction":

Dude, Anderson Cooper, having got beat up in Tahrir Square yesterday spent the night reporting, somehow live, bunkered on the floor of a lowlit appartment in Cairo -In other words giving the gonzo.

so i guess he's doing fine. i too send my heart to him.

that's an interesting article linked in foreign policy. but i'm not so sure about this premise:

Here are five steps Washington should take to expedite the Mubarak regime's inevitable demise

seems like the fate of the mubarak regime isn't "inevitable," either way (unless you're convinced he's sticking to his word about stepping down later this year).

The "five step" approach is SO stupid. "Ten Easy Ways Mubarak Could Book An American Airlines Flight From Cairo."

lol

5) Warn regional governments against intervening in Egypt's domestic politics on the side of the Mubarak regime. Arab dictatorships are invested in Mr. Mubarak's survival, as they fear a democratic wave that could sweep them from power as well. Israel is also worried about the future of its peace treaty with its southern neighbor. Of the two, Arab capitals have a stronger cause for concern.

empty threats aren't worth making. what will we do if a hostile arab nation is found interfering on mubarak's side? invade; bomb?

I do not care what happens to Anderson Cooper one bit

How radical left of you.

invade; bomb?

Surely there are other options like denying them arms or assistance.

The "five step" approach is SO stupid.

It's better than not thinking about various steps at all.

I really wish Wikileaks had all the diplomatic cables regarding these events. That would make for some fascinating reading.

mufti mo collier issues fatwa against anderson cooper

while offering shipments of medical aid through the Red Crescent to all the injured protesters.

Given the track record of the Muslim Brotherhood, esp during the '92 earthquake, coordinating this between the RC and them might be a great way to start positive enagement with them.

I do not care what happens to Anderson Cooper one bit

Like him or loathe him, fine, Shakey, but in a world where 57 reporters were killed last year, 51 abducted, and there were 1,374 reported cases of attacks or threats on reporters, being glib about this shit is kinda not cool.

Imagine if Cooper had done his reporting in really dangerous countries like Switzerland.

AJ was talking earlier about foreign correspondents being beaten by mubarak guys. don't know where they were from. maybe they just meant anderson cooper.

but yeah thugs beating up journalists is actually exactly the kind of thing people should care about. plus he is so beautiful.

think ilx would condone beatings of daily mail journalists

LOL social media:

Kenneth Cole Hijacks "Cairo" Hashtag

I do not care what happens to Anderson Cooper one bit

― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:05 PM (36 minutes ago)

jokingly talking about the deaths of famous people is your MO, i know, but what do you have against anderson cooper exactly?

A sensible letter from an Average Person on Sully's blog:

I admit I don't know very much about Egypt. But it really seems as if events there are fairly chaotic and have a momentum of their own. I'm not sure anyone could control them very easily now. And everyone is probably trying to hang on. The idea that such a statement from the US would have an effect seems pretty hard to swallow.

And such a threat - to withhold a relationship with Egypt after things settle down - seems totally hollow. Let's say there's a lot of violence, and six months later, a new regime is in power. Maybe they're democratic, maybe not. Are we really going to say, "Look, we told you during the revolution that you had to do this stuff, and you didn't, so we're not going to talk to you." Everyone knows that we'll do whatever is in our interests. That's what everyone always does.

Now that Mubarak hasn't accepted Obama's suggestion that he step down, everyone says, "Well, of course we knew he wouldn't do it, but it had to be said." But now people are insisting that we make demands on the Egyptian military - no one specific, just the military - and of course those demands will be taken seriously.

This isn't really the strangest stuff, though. We've backed Mubarak for more than three decades. We're the main reason he has been able to stay in power. We kept him there, and we've always looked the other way when confronted with his crimes against his own people. We've encouraged him to make decisions that are deeply unpopular among the Egyptian people on a whole variety of issues, including, most prominently, Egypt's relationship with Israel.

Pundits in this country always talk as if the Egyptian people will forget all of this if only Obama will say the right thing on day 6 of the revolution. People act as if our backing of Mubarak for more than 30 years won't really have any lasting consequences, but the things we say today, in the middle of the crisis, will.

Running through all of this is a fairly bizarre conception of the US's power, its ability to project that power, and its image in the world, combined with a staggering inability to consider, even superficially, how things must look to people in other countries . To people in Egypt, for example.

I think we sometimes lose track of how insulating our bubble really is, and how strange the echo chamber can become.