The Matrix Reloaded (full spoilers)

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another thing: what was the flaw with the five previous matrices? its been said the first one created was absolutely perfect - so presumably humans lived in a peaceful utopia...but their subconscious became convinced this was 'too good to be true' so people kept waking up in the pods...to rectify this the Architect integrated features of the 'original construct' (pre-machine war Earth/society) i.e. disasters and wrongdoings, natural or otherwise into the next version...but how we then got from version 2 to version 6 is unclear, and if the problem with version 6 is a combination of too much choice (i.e. the ability to choose freedom from the matrix once persuaded by Neo and co.) then how did they prevent that in previous versions?

another possibility: Neo learns that the reality he was freed from in the first film, our reality, is itself a matrix constructed by a higher power (that would be God then...) and not the machines, so like a fractal the machines were replicating what was already there for humans - a shell within a shell. this might be a bit of a dead end tho, because there would not seem to be a system that makes more sense for humans to live in than this reality...unless, as with the machine-constructed reality, it is not true freedom. the point is, humans are technically no better off in reality than they are in the matrix - they are identical...so will be interesting to see if the next film goes beyond the mere escape from the inner shell back to the outer shell

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe they'll all take acid

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 17:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Versions 2 through 6 are all running the same OS with the Oracle/One reboot patch installed as a service pack.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan OTM.

Reading that transcript that teeny found, it appears that the sentinels are indeed going to kill everyone in Zion, and 23 new people in the matrix will be ejected to form a new one. So, we're probably talking about hundreds of years between versions.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 17:53 (twenty-three years ago)

(It occurs to me that this movie seems to be written for philosophical software engineers more than anyone else.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 17:57 (twenty-three years ago)

As was the last one. "So my fighting ability is based on how fast I can think of cool shit, not how much pizza I've just had? Dude!"

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 18:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, by "this movie" I really meant the whole series.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 18:06 (twenty-three years ago)

why do they need 23 humans to form a new Zion/Matrix? why can't the machines just create their own carbon-based units from which to draw power from by cloning, DNA etc.?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 18:50 (twenty-three years ago)

and its still very dubious that the two biggest power sources for the machines are humans and, originally according to the Animatrix, the Sun (i thought solar power was a 'pipe dream'?)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 18:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Something else just occurred to me, it's quite random but as long as we're Sherlock Holmesing away here --> first movie: you know those ppl who have come round for Neo, and he has to give them like a program or hack or something. (This is after he wakes up from the "dream" of being contacted by Morpheus and he thinks everything's back to normal. Always Morpheus with the frickin dreams!! "They are sleeping peacefully tonight" he says in the 2nd movie.... ha HA praps Morpheus is in fact a PROGRAM and he can implant dreams in people's headZor!! Dan Perry this is the answer to your precog dream! Morpheus implants the dream about Trinity... ooer but why would he do that.) Anyway the people who come round to Neo's door speak to him as if they do business on a regular basis. And.... they look SERIOUSLY Zionistickal no?? Meaningful glances. The white rabbit on the shoulder. They were working with Morpheus. The gears were already turning to draw Keanu back to the Source, start the reboot, ensure humanity's cycle of bondage..... Anyway this could all wrong but I do think that Zion is rather more of a JAIL for HUMANGS than anything else.

stevem, why "the machines" need the humangs to be anything more than sessile vegetables remains a mystery to me.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 18:54 (twenty-three years ago)

At the end of the third movie, Neo and Trinity will pull the mask off of the Matrix and reveal Mr. Macgruder the gardener! ("And I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling cyberpunks!")

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 18:57 (twenty-three years ago)

heh, when Neo entered the souce to confront the Architect, part of me seriously expected the chair to swing round and reveal either:

a) Neo
b) a chimp
c) all of the above

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:00 (twenty-three years ago)

TRICK QUESTION: A) and B) are the same!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

it shoulda been alex winter and he shoulda gone 'dude!'

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:06 (twenty-three years ago)

and then played air guitar obv.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:06 (twenty-three years ago)

"Your first question, while the most pertinent, will also be the most irrelevant"

"Why am I here?"

entire audience: groans

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:07 (twenty-three years ago)

"YOU are number SIX"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:08 (twenty-three years ago)

For some reason, I KNEW the question was going to be "Boxers or briefs?"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:09 (twenty-three years ago)

it shoulda been alex winter and he shoulda gone 'dude!'

oh my god, best film ever

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:10 (twenty-three years ago)

then cut to Agent Smith going 'check it out, i totally possessed Bain!'

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:11 (twenty-three years ago)

I just watched Bill & Ted last night and I must say I would welcome a thread about said film that had as much thought put into it as this one.

― slutsky (slutsky), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:14 (twenty-three years ago)

TRICK QUESTION: A) and B) are the same!

That ain't no trick. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, not entirely...

Are you saying there is more then one race to blame for Keanu?

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I just watched Bill & Ted last night and I must say I would welcome a thread about said film that had as much thought put into it as this one.

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=1&q=Bill+and+Ted%27s+Excellent++Adventure&mode=threads

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Are you saying there is more then one race to blame for Keanu?

A bit harsh, but I understand the sentiment. ;-) His ancestry is Chinese, Caucasian and I believe native Hawaiian as well. Spencer would be a much better actor/rock star/technomessiah, methinks.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:31 (twenty-three years ago)

off to revive!

(x-post)

― slutsky (slutsky), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 19:33 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe get him one of those kidz bop comps and, um, burn me a copy too.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 21:10 (twenty-three years ago)

if you pass your mouse over the icons on the kidz bop site you can play riffready rock just like pete townshend!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 21:11 (twenty-three years ago)

haha, wrong thread!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 21:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Anthony Zerbe sex: We need machines to get along, Neo, DO YOU SEE?

Zion council = 23 people! Do the crazy MATH. Failsafe.

― Millar (Millar), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 21:50 (twenty-three years ago)

"is that why there are no young men on the council?" !!!

whoa.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 23:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Dig it!!!

― Millar (Millar), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 23:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm totally with Dan on this (except that Keanu is H-O-T). I don't understand all the hate.

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 01:53 (twenty-three years ago)

The only scene I didn't enjoy was the unnecessary rave scene intercut with shot after shot of Keanu's ass. After a while I was like, "Okay, I get it, HE HAS AN ASS. Can we show something else now? Oh, guess not."

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 01:56 (twenty-three years ago)

huh huh huh "butt-plugs"

― Millar (Millar), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 02:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Keanu ass is urgent and key!

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 02:31 (twenty-three years ago)

It was shit. I had fun. Nuff said.

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 08:19 (twenty-three years ago)

watched the first one again last night and it seemed better than before, also actually answered a few questions i had upthread that i was too dumb to remember

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 10:57 (twenty-three years ago)

the smith fight made me think of 'come to daddy'. pity that they didn't cgi the backs of their heads like they did the fronts - when they were walking way it was obvious they weren't all the same.

as anyone mentioned the carol vorderman link yet?

good though.

andy

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:29 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, and the rave scene made me think of ewoks.

andy

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I am disturbed by the percentage of ILE posters who equate unbridled grinding and fondling with Ewoks. Unsurprised, but disturbed.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Y'know, normally I don't notice soundtracks at all - but I did notice this one. I noticed how much I liked it.

I thought the highway scene was really boring and crap and I didn't like the hundreds of Smiths scene either.

Morpheus' speech was so pathetic. He didn't say anything motivating or frenzy inducing, his voice sounded really weak and strained, he had no stage prescence. I don't get it, I though the guy playing the role was meant to be an actor - how come he couldn't pull it off? It was embarrassingly bad.

Keanu = k-hot.

I didn't notice the 23 on the council, 23 choosen to rebuild Zion thing. How many were male and how many female?

― toraneko (toraneko), Thursday, 29 May 2003 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

his speech was classic contentless bombast = exactly what 1 would expect from someone whose role is to STOP people from questioning the reality of their jail-like existence; i think the slight strain and stiffness were intended to raise doubts in our minds about his role; in thee first movie he is a mystic renegade visionary, in this one he uses his personal charisma to subvert the defense plans of his own people

dude i think the sentinels are escape pods!! remember when the zionistick leadership is discussing how there's "one for every citizen of zion" and morpheus comes in going "sounds like machine thinking to me" and they're all like "whoa, morpheus, whassup" and forget everything they were talking about; sentinels r gunning for nebuchadnezzar because they neo et al are a DANJUH to mankind

i think the drilling and/or sentinels are sent by humans, alive at the top, taking the upper hand perhaps momentarily in their REAL fight against the machines, and sending down rescue crews to the poor fuckers who are literally living in hell (check out that lava action)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 29 May 2003 18:33 (twenty-three years ago)

another kooky theory -- the machines are keeping guard over humans until they learn to take responsibility for themselves -- i.e. neo must prove that he knows how to place love over accomidation which is why the Architect gives him the choice in the first place.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 29 May 2003 18:44 (twenty-three years ago)

wait what do we make of Neo stopping the sentinels with his mojo, when he wasn't in the Matrix? He's just a regular dude when jacked out, right? So they're RILLY NOT EVER OUT whoa or he's got some other thing going on.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 29 May 2003 19:04 (twenty-three years ago)

or it's a massive inconsistency that needs to be logged and discussed on the appropriate websites.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 29 May 2003 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

either he has become powerful enough to carry his powers into the 'real world', or they are not in the real world (as the Architect informs Neo, tho he might have been lying)...but if the latter then why did he go into a coma? if the Architect somehow 'unlocked' Neo's powers into the mezzanine level of the Matrix that they thought was the real world then maybe that explains the coma as 'teething trouble'

and for fucks sake will everyone stop complaining about how the 100 Smiths fight scene looked so CGI/fake...do you people sit and watch cartoons and go 'oh thats so unrealistic'? come on...

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 29 May 2003 19:11 (twenty-three years ago)

the prevailing theory (that I am getting used to) is that Zion is a failsafe Matrix for the 0.01% of humans that don't buy the first one. Thus Neo talks to the Architect, and after having a subconscious realization he turns around and tries to see if he can affect Zion-space the same way he can affect Matrix-space. And indeed he can. Thus floored by the terrific unreality of everything he collapses into a state of catatonia.

― Millar (Millar), Thursday, 29 May 2003 19:39 (twenty-three years ago)

do you people sit and watch cartoons and go 'oh thats so unrealistic'?

Well, at least I can remove my four-fingered white gloves from my hands.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 May 2003 19:41 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think that Zion is actually a literal "matrix" -- i.e. that ppl in Zion are actually jacked in somewhere else. It seems a bit too "gotcha" so I think Zion really exists and the ppl. in it are in the "real world" but still in the figurative matrix in that they've been controlled and monitered and etc. by the machines all along.

The reason the matrix needs to be reset is precisely coz that failsafe can't handle neo, and his "anomilies" need to be redigested to make the next version more "perfect".

Think godel's theorem -- as things accumulate, neo is the "godel number" of the system which challenges its w-completeness, so it has to be recreated at a higher level etc.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 29 May 2003 19:47 (twenty-three years ago)

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