abortion classic or dud?

If fetuses are legal persons, can you have them arrested for stealing nutrients from your bloodstream?

A mirthless "haha" -- maybe it would lead to mandatory abortions, in order to keep the fetus in custody while his or her case went to trial.

~~blood coming out of my eyeballs~~
Yeah, head exploding, cannot think too much about it this morning lest I start screaming in all caps.

Exactly.

Just one more way of preserving the rights of those who can afford to go to court...

engage in any other behavior that jeopardizes the fetus

height of ridiculousness. foetal rights outstripping women's rights.

jennifer baumgardner and amy richards are great. i went to see them read at bluestockings a month or so ago. i was reading a review of the recent abortion/family book that accused her of some white privilege, but it's kind of hard to take seriously because i learned about white privilege from their writings.

RW'ers are freaking out over Obama's inauguration, and a lot of it is over abortion. It just seems like it is the only issue they care about.

Even if you didn't vote for Obama, it is an historic occasion, no? I think the sore loser attitude and the "one issue" approach says a lot about some people's commitment to politics.

I mean these people don't want to talk politics at all unless it is about abortion. I think this is very controlling and a bit disturbing. A lot of Republicans are pro-choice and are guilt tripped about their beliefs.

It's always some old religious white guy doing this. I go to church, and the people that nod their heads and do whatever the church says are usually white guys aged 50-70. What is the psychology behind this.

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2009/01/pro-life_group_up_in_arms_over.php

It's just tradition to show respect for the occasion, whether you are a Democrat or a Republican.

What is it with these old white people who refuse to talk politics unless it is some religious issue (gays, abortion)? Younger people who are anti-abortion at least try to discuss it with others, in my experience.

What are these people so bitter about? If you disagree with abortion, you can still protest at a clinic or offer counseling for pregnant women.

Even if you didn't vote for Obama, it is an historic occasion, no?

Seems there are some who disagree. Some friends of my grandparents are hosting an inauguration party and one woman has reportedly declined the invitation because she "sees nothing historic about the event". I don't even know on what grounds you could possibly argue that! It's just code for "I AIN'T VOTE FOR NO N1GG3R" afaic. Fuck this lady.

Hi 3v3rybody!

N3xt Monday 3v3ning, __________ ar3 co-sponsoring an MVA workshop h3r3 on campus! With a fr33 dinn3r!

MVA stands for manual vacuum aspiration. It's a r3lativ3ly simpl3 surgical t3chniqu3 for t3rminating a pr3gnancy. Two local physicians, Drs. __________________ , will b3 coming to campus to t3ach you (y3s, YOU) how to p3rform an abortion on a papaya.

If you'd lik3 to com3, 3at and l3arn, pl3as3, pl3as3, PL3AS3 RSVP to m3, or to ____________________ by th3 3nd of th3 w33k. W3 n33d to g3t an id3a of how many papayas to g3t, and how much food to ord3r.

l33t'd up for.....no particular reason, i guess

anyway, papayas!

uh

http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/display/04716e74-a9f1-4477-ad9d-54b10501f6c5.JPG

are you going??? sounds fun

would it be rude to eat the papaya, after

OK that baby papaya thing is amazing.

I've heard of that, gbx. In that one article where the woman med stude went to the same workshop. Did I ever find that Wash Po article for you?

Laurel I think you did because I read it after you mentioned it.

I don't think you did!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/14/AR2008111401698_pf.html

She linked to it upthread. Unless you're talking about a different article?

Good memory, E! Thanks for reposting.

Papayas??

Regarding the idea that abortion is "traumatic to the mother"

http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/127868/why_are_even_smart,_liberal_men_freaked_out_by_abortion/

And I wanted to throw in that I am fond of replacing "pro-life" with "compulsory pregnancy advocates" (thx Jenny, and feminist bloggers everywhere).

oh cool, thanks, i will read that E!

....later, at least

Ah, now I understand about the papayas, sort of.

I would totally go to this fyi. Even if there were not fr33 f00d.

So would I.

should i go and BLOG about it?

You should go and learn about it so that if you decide you want to provide comprehensive women's health care services, you know how.

yowch

abortion never tasted this good
http://www.tinymuse.org/~mint/fastfood/papaya.gif

How was that a "yowch"?

Wasn't meant to be zingish.

oh sorry, i thought it was a zing :( but yeah, you are correct, I should go! am reading that article now, btw

hey GBX when does the medical community consider embryo/fetus a person? i mean is there a point your average dr considers "too late"?

too late for the abort, of course

I recalled the article when it was posted a while ago; it seemed relatively well-balanced and. . .

OK I bring the baggage of working in a lab with a very talented med student who chose the OBG-YN path but was all "no, I'm Catholic and there is no way I'd condone abortions." This was really bothersome to me--I really feel that particularly as a women's health provider, you are ethically obligated to provide at least a neutral opinion on abortion; even if you do not do abortions yourself, ethically you are obligated to advise a women of her options and make the appropriate referals according to her choice.

Obv. this is a debatable stance.

That question is decided by each state, sunny. Usually in the low-20s (weeks).
xpost

wow that seems late. is that to account for birth defects found at 20 wk ultrasound or also for people who decide they dont want a baby? or is that not an issue?

Quincie I agree with you 100%.

SS - in MA for instance it's legal up until 24 weeks for any reason but only after 24 weeks if the mother's life is in danger.

Ugh I know of women--girls, really--who don't even understand that they are pregnant at 24 weeks???

Limits are imposed based on how each state defines "viability", or when a fetus could survive outside the womb. Exceptions for health of the mother are in place to allow for abortion even past those limits.

I, too, agree with you, quincie. I will not allow myself to get started on that topic...

x-post Yeah, I've seen that happen. It happens more frequently then you'd think esp with young girls.

There are so many situations that can make a woman seek an abortion that late. I one woman who was married but in an abusive relationship. She hadn't known she was pregnant until around 3 mo and then it took her a couple weeks to decide that she had to terminate. She then had several these complications with medical clearance due to a heart condition and rescheduling so that she just made it in at 23 weeks by which point she had to undergo a saline abortion which is really intense procedure.

q: When does human life begin?

a: What is the smallest number of grains that can constitute a heap?

(Inconveniently, the insolent physical world refuses to reconstitute itself to conform to our words for it.)

one of the most depressing things in the most recent abortion debate in britain was the way the time period was floated as an entirely subjective, moral, flexible measure; while there should obviously be debate that looks for an appropriate measure between one week being o k and fifty weeks not being o k, there are still fundamental, natural stages that should dictate the limits. the brain of a foetus is not fully developed at twenty weeks, and will not continue to develop outside of the womb, and so viability becomes this skewed measure of potential life trumping quality of life. it seems kind of low key to concentrate on the small variations between states and their time limits, but a consensus drop towards the low 20s would be pretty disasterous i think.

the girls not knowing they're pregnant thing is complicated too - young girls who don't present, people who don't or aren't in a fit state to acknowledge the pregnancy, people who for whatever reasons (relationship, economic) wouldn't have access to a doctor until closer to the time limit - i know it veers close to the grey areas the article talks about, but targeting the tiny group of late term abortions as a way of decreasing the number as a whole really hits some of the people most in need of abortions the hardest.

xp enbb - right. the stats on the number of abortions that happen in this period - it's miniscule, but it'll really disenfranchise sections of society desperately in need of such services

Schlump, what you said there is exactly what I would have tried to say had I not been exhausted and about to go to bed when I last posted. It is also the reason that I'm 100% pro choice for any reason at any time. Thank you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/abortiondifficult.jpg

As evidenced in my previous posts on this thread this is a very serious issue to me and quite frankly Omar I'm offended by that.

sorry :(

Actually I'm not, it's awesome.

So is this ad for Baby Safe Haven brought to you by the people of my glorious state.

whew~

i will refrain from reposting the five second films pregnant woman clip though