The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

tell that to the parents of that 9 year old girl

ffs

i think the difference is it matters "that much" to a lot (but it's not that great a percentage!!!) of people whose lives are negatively affected

I'm pretty sure her parents aren't posting here.

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

i think the difference is it matters "that much" to a lot (but it's not that great a percentage!!!) of people whose lives are negatively affected

― positive reflection is the key (harbl), Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:45 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark

right, tho this just serves to explain why ppl get really involved in these debates---it isn't ~necessarily~ a prescription for sane/sound/effective policy-making, you know?

Sorry Milo, I wasn't saying you wanted to ban anything, just pointing out how ludicrous it is to compare gun deaths to anything else in order to make a point in favour of guns. Guns don't have a utility other than shooting things, and should be taken on their merits rather than how much damage they cause compared to something that's actually useful.

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

― Princess TamTam, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:46 PM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what i get from this is "americans dont deserve guns"

"People whose lives are negatively affected" is the same kind of argument conservatives make about giving victims/families more say in the criminal justice system. It's a terrible argument from them and from progressives/liberals.

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

― Princess TamTam, Monday, January 10, 2011 10:46 AM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark

you talkin about sweden? norway? those are countries which also make their gun owners undergo rigorous training and teach a culture of responsibility

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

^ this is exactly why i don't care that much about banning guns, i just feel like milo's arguments are frustrating & gun violence makes me sad
xp to tam

basically I don't think that gun crime or crime in general is driven by availability imo

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 13:46 (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, I know Switzerland is basically swimming with firearms and the incidence of violent crime there is low (xp dayo otm)

and yeah it does kinda show that americans shouldn't have guns because we are just too fucked up

lol teach a culture of responsibility ok man

tamtam: where? i buy that there are places w/way more guns, but i'm also guessing that those are places where the guns are held by, like, paramilitary orgs and that the avg dude on the street doesn't have any meaningful access

xp ah, i did not know that about scandos/swiss

damn yemenis own themselves some fuckin guns

Okay, so for the sake of argument (and deliberately leaving the US out of it for the moment) we have:

- countries with many guns and many violent crime (SA)
- countries with few guns and few violent crime (AU)
- countries with many guns and few violent crime (CH)
- countries with few guns and many violent crime (???????????)

yeah canks iirc all americans are made to undergo a mandatory one year stint in the military, just like in sweden

last one is England

tuomas is armed and dangerous

I drive a car to dissuade others with cars from running me over. But it's OK, I took a safety course.

yah lets keep the violent crime/murder distinction clear

some Scandinavian countries encourage the use of suppressors ("silencers"), whereas getting one hear is a many-month process that's very expensive

lol wait, did I say Sweden, I meant switzerland :/

Man if that list was representative its saying 90% of americans have a gun

..I know it isnt true. but yike.

Australia's in the top 20, its worth noting.

some Scandinavian countries encourage the use of suppressors ("silencers"), whereas getting one hear is a many-month process that's very expensive

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:52 PM (6 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what does this even have to do with anything

jesus - Canada is 9th?!

xposts!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

yeah canks iirc all americans are made to undergo a mandatory one year stint in the military, just like in sweden

― dayo, Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:51 PM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark

even tho my gut reaction is to balk, severely, at mandatory service, i can't help but think it would do the US a world of good in some ways

worked pretty well in starship troopers

lol i thought it was well-known that canada was gun fucking central

Australia's in the top 20, its worth noting.

Of violent crime?

Surely due to it being hugely rural/bears n shit, skewing the gun req's? xpost

Adam: no of that gun ownership per pop list

brazil's a good example for the low gun ownership, high gun crime rate

but comparing america to anything but a highly developed western country is pointless

hey - i spent Christmas morning sitting on a couch next to a fully stocked gun case, but 9th - i did not expect.

oh righto xp to trayce

even tho my gut reaction is to balk, severely, at mandatory service, i can't help but think it would do the US a world of good in some ways

― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:53 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

fwiw all ex-military guys I know have been very very responsible in gun ownership. lol my cousin is married to a dude who owns one of like 7 .50 caliber sniper rifles in the states. O_o

Heck that list says we hold more guns per capita than mexico or columbia o_0

thread needs tombot

what does this even have to do with anything

I smell a rat with that list. I would have expected Sth Africa to be well above Australia. Presuming that list is recorded gun ownership, as Australia's got pretty tight audits on that stuff and Sth Africa's is messy as hell.

Perhaps you're unaware that their restriction is part of the initial wave of modern gun control - and are found much more frequently in other 'more strict' countries (such as those now being discussed).
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:55 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

I'm not following you milo

lol my cousin is married to a dude who owns one of like 7 .50 caliber sniper rifles in the states.

what does this even have to do with anything

― max, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:52 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark

i know this is your 'thing' max but could you not do it

i still dont get what the point is

There are a ton of .50BMG in the US. A single-shot bolt action runs ~$2500, the military Barrett semi-auto will run you about $9k.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:57 AM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark

I should clarify - one of 7 of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_HS_.50 allowed in the US

or so he told me, I know nothing about guns

As many people possess multiple weapons and many others possess none, this number is not a representation of the percentage of people who possess guns in each nation.

and so on