NAMING RIGHTS THREAD: Liverpool really won't win the Premiership 2010-2011

find it very hard to believe that hodgson is sending them out there saying 'play like we always did, but btw, the front four needn't try off the ball'

ih he's doind that, then yeah he needs to be sacked.

Rafa always spoke about the team doing it's best to win every game. He spoke about quality, focus, mentality. Roy just wants us to lose, he hates dignity. If he had his way, Liverpool wouldn't even have been European Capital of Culture. The man is a fucking pig.

hansen was really weird on motd; starting off suggesting tonight was a tipping point but then backtracking swiftly mid sentence as if he'd been poked in the ribs.

not paid to have an opinion, i guess? bbc mandate? i dunno.

wolves, pool - extraordinary game - because it seemed like it was the easiest 3 points wolves had gotten all season. once ward's goal had gone in, it was just a matter of stearman heading balls clear and the midfielders launching it back into pool's half - cant recall a single clear-cut home chance bar mereiles' one-on-one in first half. wolves' old flaws were in evidence - the inability of hunt or jarvis to deliver from the flank particularly, though those two did cover a lot of ground.

i think hodgson will go in midweek. i'm not sure who pool should appoint from here, but there is no way woy could or should carry on from here.

but as said, it's very tough to see who they can get in right now that's going to make it healthy or worthwhile? I know that it's a balance between the damage keeping him could do and the damage such a quick managerial turnover could have on the club, with absolutely no guarantees that the next guy (whoever it is) will be able to lift such a jaded looking outfit.

I don't think pool are in any real danger of relegation, I think there's prob an outside chance that they'll snap out of it soon enough to push for Europe, but in all likelihood they're looking at a season finishing somewhere around 10th under Hodgson. I don't think there's anyone out there going to come in in the middle of a season and do better.

As it happens, I think that he will probably go in the next week or two, but it'll be a resignation. To push him now wouldn't be a good move for the club though.

dmac's relation to liverpool is kinda like a redneck with a caged armadillo that he pokes and riles and then bring cocoa and then pokes and riles again

it's like conan and his trainer tbh, when they're ready i'll release them without warning or reason, because the plot demands it.

what i meant to say was that wolves won despite a performance riddled with flaws - not to criticise them, they were excellent - but it should be a lot more difficult to do what they did. i mean, i love the wolves and was rooting for them, but there weren't too many times when i was nervous about them holding on - pool's game plan was often just to engage in a reina vs hennessy long ball battle, except the wolves players would actually compete in the air, while the pool players were incredibly static. this was a point where it seemed pool werent even competing, rather than being just muddled.

In case it's not abundantly clear, and it may not be, it's not LFC I have a problem with- it's Benitez that I think is a blight on all of football. Sure, LFC have their fair share of dicks like Carragher and Gerrard, but I mean rather them than Bentley/Jenas, right? At least they're on vaguely the right side of the 'gives a fuck' divide, which I can admire.

xp- Agrees, Wolves weren't pushed at any stage once they nicked the goal.

jenas gives a fuck

kinda? idk

bentley is scum

Nah, jenas is feckless, but affects an air of mild concern.

Pity, he's got everything he needs to be an England starter, but large crowds seem to put the poor dear off.

a pool-supporting friend texted me saying he wants dalglish or rijkaard - neither of which i would fancy (am i being hard on rijkard? he seems a bit too distant, but he's got a few big trophies on his cv, so maybe i'm being silly). i think the two most likely to get it are o'neill and rafa (not stirring it, i actually think this could happen).

fuck that, get mourinho imo he'll kick some sense into that fanny konch

So hard to say with Rijkaard imo- What's he done apart from Barca?

Dalglish? As well off leaving Woy in I'd have thought.

I'd say Rafa or O'Neill are the best bets, but jesus taking Rafa back would just be brookside stuff. And I don't know how happy that would make many first teamers? Torres looked well sick of him, for a start.

Martin Jol, I'm telling ye. The abuse I took from my LFC mates over wanting him out, I'd love to inflict him back on them.

So hard to say with Rijkaard imo- What's he done apart from Barca?

euro 2000 semifinal

haha i feel sorry for poor paul k - the fact that he's come from woy's old club means he's a teacher's pet scapegoat, and also he's sort of like brian cowen in that if he'd arrived into his current role at a time when there were enough people to carry him along, and if the circumstances were better, he'd be seen as fairly innoccuous. and also, in a point unrelated to him being like brian cowen, if we looked at the season completely coldly, he'd be seen as just another pool underperformer to go with all the others, bar a class goalkeeper.

yep! But harsh to comare him to cowen, rly.

i nave just been told to go to bed by a three yr old. She's got a bloody rafa streak in her i reckon. Toodle pip

Dan Walker alternates between calling people mate, fella and chief.

You know, I'm not 100% that outside of the 'big games' they always seem to do well in that Liverpool haven't actually played like this for at least two years now - all that's missing is the "never in doubt" last minte equalisers/winners.

There must be someone out there who can be bothered to look into the stats and see how many points they won in the last 10-15 minutes since, say, 2007?

looking at their big Title Challenge Season of 2008-09:

Late decisive goals 2008-2009
(for)
Torres 83 winner in 1-0 vs Sunderland
o.g. 86 and Gerrard 90 mins for 2-1 vs Boro
Babel 77 winner in 2-1 vs Man U
Kuyt 90 winner in 3-2 vs City
Riera 80 and Kuyt 85 in 3-2 vs Wigan
Gerrard 76 (pen) winner vs Portsmouth
Benayoun 79 and Gerrard 90 in 3-1 vs Blackburn
Torres 89 and 90 in 2-0 vs Chelsea
Kuyt 85 and Torres 90 in 3-2 vs Portsmouth
Kuyt 78 in 1-1 vs City
Benayoun 90 in 1-0 vs Fulham
Benayoun 90 in 4-4 vs Arsenal (after 90th min Arshavin goal)

(against)
Cahill 87 in 1-1 vs Everton
Mido 83 (pen) in 1-1 vs Wigan
(also arguably the Arshavin goal in the 4-4)

though doesn't that show fitness, endeavour, courage, never-say-die, etc. and therefore make them a good team with a good spirit?

Way upturead but rafa wasn't a long ball coach.

As for replacements o'neill is the standout for me. I thought dalglish was far too fanciful in the summer but we're that shit now I don't think he could be any worse.

I think Roy's press conferences show a man who doesn't have the hunger or mental strength for this job. Time to go.

And to sort of add to onimo's post, in 08/09 they also scored lots of goals, plenty of teams beaten heavily, plus gerrard and torres missed a lot of games.

Last year they were bad but they're not going to come 7th this year, not a hope.

I can see what people mean about team spirit etc (although Ronan, Gerrard and/or Torres clearly played in 50% of the late points onimo lists), but maybe Hodgson's point about the fans is a good one - it's not just about the players showing spirit, it's also about the fans staying till the end and cheering the side on; look at some of the examples there - losing to Boro (at Anfield iirc) the year they went down and were experimenting with Southgate's first managerial job, only drawing with and losing to Portsmouth the year they went down...

What if this really is a fan thing at heart - that as those sort of scenarios became more frequent people were leaving before the end and couldn't provide that last lift? I've seen footage this year of fans leaving after about 70 minutes this season - the goals produced after that contributed 30 points in 08/09.

Same stats for 09/10 (later than 75 mins, changes points):

Gerrard 83 mins winner at Bolton
Benayoun 77 min equaliser at home to City
Torres 79 minute winner at home to Wigan
Torres 93 minute winner at Villa

only one against rescued a point for Stoke.

A fair few additional goals to increase wins, but they're the only game changers.

Hang on, Pompey didn't go down in 08/09, did they. Strike that.

2007/08:

Gerrard 87 minute winner at Villa (I remember this one, ran into a static player off the ball and got a free kick on the edge of the box for obstruction - but cancels an 86 min Barry penalty so not important statistically)
Benayoun 75 min winner vs Wigan
Torres 92 min equaliser vs Spurs
Kuyt 92 min winning penalty vs Everton
Torres (81) Gerrard (85 pen) winners v Fulham
Gerrard 92 min winner at Derby
Crouch 88 equaliser v Villa
Blackburn game featured 3 goals in the last 8, 2-1 in Liverpool's favour

Against 80 Fabregas equaliser at Anfield, 80 min Bramble equaliser for Wigan, Mark Noble 93 min pen winner for West Ham

Now, if these got mapped against league position, it might begin to show that the last 10 minutes of their matches is what determines Liverpool's league position. I wonder if it's true for other sides?

Don't understand the love for Martin O'Neill. His buy British transfer policy and unwillingness to rotate should be enough to put John Henry off.

07/08: finished on 76, adjusted for 'last 15' by 10 goes to 66
08/09: finished on 86, adjusted for 'last 15' by 29 goes to 57
09/10: finished on 63, adjusted for 'last 15' by 5 goes to 58

Hmm.

Only 4 points in Liverpool's favour under 'last 15' for 06/07, takes them from 68 to 64.
5 points in 05/06, 82 moves to 77
11 in 04/05, 58 points moves to 47

So Benitez' first year was woeful, second was great and thereafter around the 60 point mark once you remove the Never In Doubt factor.

yeah but you can't remove it - those last 15 (more like 20 with stoppage time) determine a shit load of games. You'd need to do the same exercise for every team and the net result is likely to be that there are more goals scored in 75-90 than at any other time - Liverpool's 29 points 08-09 is freakish but I don't expect the 5-10 points gained every other season differs that much from any other top 4-6 team (which they were).

o'neill is overrated but still good, imo.

1. fuck whoever it was bringing up random quotes of mine from JULY. how about asking me how I feel now?

2. I still think Woy was an excellent choice and is doing fine. People on some crazy entitlement bullshit thinking Liverpool deserve to be higher than they are. It's a team that had to sell their best and replace them with Konchesky and Poulson - they are exactly where they should be in the league. Woy got a couple years to turn Fulham from relegation candidates to European finalists and he did it by being very wise in the transfer market - give him fuck all money in January and he'll still improve this team imo.

3. This is where I think Liverpool fans are all crazy disease. Hey lets blame this manager and put all of our problems on him and you know who the logical choice to replace him is? Someone who hasn't managed in 15 years! He'll make us great again! The game certainly hasn't changed, he'll fit right in with only buying British players, obscene drinking and dietary habits and letting Robbie Fowler do lines, understanding how the game is going slowly to having one of your strikers be one of those fancy European no. 10s but not trying to piss off the fans because thats all a bit 'Allo 'Allo.

4. He's going to get the sack because he cannot motivate players who haven't been caring since Alonso left and being on course for a season doing about as well as Rafa did without Masch. In a season where there was two months of speculation whether the team would be having to find new places of employment and possibly not getting paid in the foreseeable future for something he had not part of. Doing a fucking excellent job in that respect imo, you'd think they'd be further down the table.

5. O'Neill is another one of those 'he'd have been great as an assistant manager his whole career' types iykwim.

Really think the last thing Liverpool need right now is a manager whose idea of squad rebuilding is to spend £35 million on Curtis Davis, Stewart Downing, Nigel Reo Coker and Habib Beye.

5. O'Neill is another one of those 'he'd have been great as an assistant manager his whole career' types iykwim.

I disagree - he's never been a training ground type, always needed guys around him to do the leg work while he stuck to man management, team talks, squad management and bouncing up and down motivational touchline antics.

Also he was fairly successful in every job he's had - especially if you look at what he inherited in each case.

Downside of course is that he leaves you on the slide with an ageing squad of overpaid players on long contracts </bitter>

Friend of mine's a Fulham fan and I kept going on at him over the summer for his repeated insistence that Mark Hughes was the perfect manager for their club, and looking at me like I was an idiot for suggesting they'd be better off with someone like Sean O'Driscoll or Keith Hill. I just don't understand why football fans would much rather have a manager that's failed at a bigger club than succeeded at a smaller one?

because they don't know who the one at smaller clubs is? most people's knowledge is v. limited, as is their interest tbrr.

What's the love for Sean O'Driscoll based on? Someone was touting him for the Celtic job, and I didn't find anything to suggest he was anything other than run of the mill.

Got Doncaster promoted and stabilised in the Championship - unremarkable by Best League In The World standards but he clearly knows his job.

1. fuck whoever it was bringing up random quotes of mine from JULY. how about asking me how I feel now?
― irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:55 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

Well, that would be me. I was trying to explain the context of a comment NBV posted in regards to my opinion re the Hodgson appointment. I think it was pretty clear and I really wasn't trying to be a dick. But you know if you want to tell me to 'fuck off' you just did, so well done.

People on some crazy entitlement bullshit thinking Liverpool deserve to be higher than they are.

No problem with not challenging for the title, but would you honestly be happy with Arsenal defending for their lives against the likes of Blackpool and Northampton?

Dan Walker alternates between calling people mate, fella and chief.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 30 December 2010 11:24 (4 hours ago)

is he the 'focus' dude? terrible human being for sure

Arsenal haven't cocked up how to run a club the past 5 years.

I started supporting Arsenal at a time when they were a drunken post-bung mess. Badly run clubs get bad results.

days of winterburn and rioch

How was Hodgson an excellent choice? What on his CV suggested that he was suitable for the job? He was brought in to steady the ship and to get the best out of the players available, which btw are nowhere near as bad as the press would have you believe. The idea that he was going to take the shackles off and have us playing sexy football was absurd, where's the evidence for this? He got the job on the back of a good cup run, and because the press wanted an Englishman in charge of oen of the big clubs.

Who is ever talking about taking the shackles off and playing sexy football?

He got the job because he has proven himself turning around a sinking ship.

isn't there a whole thread for the village elders to stand around poking the twitching corpse of liverpool and expounding on how it came to pass

liverpool weren't going to finish in the cl next year whatever happened

the only issue is where do they go now? the new top four might be as difficult to shift as the old top four

that mixed metaphor is stupid but you know what i mean. liverpool nearly went bankrupt and got a 9 points deduction this season. a 9 point deduction would have them last by 5 points. Liverpool didn't need some sexy football, they needed someone who knows how to make sure a team isn't relegated and then can move up back into a European place. He also has a p good record at big clubs btw.