The longest, freakiest conspiracy email yet. MUST READ! Opinions please!

but definielty believe that US knew all along that it was going to happen, that huge coverup is involved etc... here's a good starter http://www.sydney.indymedia.org/front.php3? article_id=10121&group=webcast

the question came up at the agm last week: cost of insuring all four prohibitive in re bank balances of occupants, so we stuck with status quo => no conspiracy required

vast cost of construction of twin towers, esp. given gamble of whether or not office space would sellable w/i ditto, offset against corner-cutting w.safety-margins and other issues which w.hindsight seems so disgraceful as to be i. lunatic, ii. criminal, iii. suspicious... but unlke the lizard-ppl of anti-semitic and other conspiracy, real actual live humans making "important" decisions have to guess and HEY!! sometimes guess rather badly.

Internal self-protective mechanisms of capitalism in re risk and catastrophe, as evolved over several hundred years, mean it is INEVITABLE that some profit where others lose. This is basic. Deeplaid shape of capitalist "system" is EVERYONE IS A GAMBLER, WILLING or NO. No one is "in control", even those apparently best placed to benefit, short or long term.

The Colder War. John Pilger writes about the new "red scare." : 

John Pilger

:29 Jan 2002





 LAST week, the US government announced that it was building the

biggest-ever war machine. Military spending will rise to $379billion, 

of

which $50billion will pay for its "war on terrorism". There will be 

special

funding for new, refined weapons of mass slaughter and for "military

operations" - invasions of other countries.



Of all the extraordinary news since September 11, this is the most 

alarming.

It is time to break our silence.



That is to say, it is time for other governments to break their 

silence,

especially the Blair government, whose complicity in the American 

rampage in

Afghanistan has not denied its understanding of the Bush 

administration's

true plans and ambitions.



The recent statements of British Ministers about the "vindication" of 

the

"outstanding success" in Afghanistan would be comical if the price of 

their

"success" had not been paid with the lives of more than 5,000 innocent

Afghani civilians and the failure to catch Osama bin Laden and anyone 

else

of importance in the al-Qaeda network.



The Pentagon's release of deliberately provocative pictures of 

prisoners at

Camp X-Ray on Cuba was meant to conceal this failure from the American

public, who are being conditioned, along with the rest of us, to 

accept a

permanent war footing similar to the paranoia that sustained and 

prolonged

the Cold War.



The threat of "terrorism", some of it real, most of it invented, is 

the new

Red Scare.



The parallels are striking.



IN AMERICA in the 1950s, the Red Scare was used to justify the growth 

of war

industries, the suspension of democratic rights and the silencing of

dissenters.



That is happening now.



Above all, the American industrial-complex has a new enemy with which 

to

justify its gargantuan appetite for public resources - the new 

military

budget is enough to end all primary causes of poverty in the world.



Donald Rumsfeld, the Defence Secretary, says he has told the Pentagon 

to

"think the unthinkable".



Vice President Dick Cheney, the voice of Bush, has said the US is

considering military or other action against "40 to 50 countries" and 

warns

that the new war may last 50 years or more.



A Bush adviser, Richard Perle, explained. "(There will be) no stages," 

he

said.



"This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are 

lots of

them out there ... If we just let our vision of the world go forth, 

and we

embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever 

diplomacy but

just wage a total war, our children will sing great songs about us 

years

from now."



Their words evoke George Orwell's great prophetic work, Nineteen

Eighty-Four.



In the novel, three slogans dominate society: war is peace, freedom is

slavery and ignorance is strength.



Today's slogan, war on terrorism, also reverses meaning. The war is

terrorism.



The next American attack is likely to be against Somalia, a deeply

impoverished country in the Horn of Africa.



Washington claims there are al-Qaeda terrorist cells there.



This is almost certainly a fiction spread by Somalia's overbearing

neighbour, Ethiopia, in order to ingratiate itself with Washington.

Certainly, there are vast oil fields off the coast of Somalia.



For the Americans, there is the added attraction of "settling a 

score".



In 1993, in the last days of George Bush Senior's presidency, 18 

American

soldiers were killed in Somalia after the US Marines had invaded to 

"restore

hope", as they put it.



A current Hollywood movie, Black Hawk Down, glamorises and lies about 

this

episode.



It leaves out the fact that the invading Americans left behind between 

7,000

and 10,000 Somalis killed.



Like the victims of American bombing in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and 

Cambodia,

and Vietnam and many other stricken countries, the Somalis are 

unpeople,

whose deaths have no political and media value in the West.



WHEN Bush Junior's heroic marines return in their Black Hawk gunships,

loaded with technology, looking for "terrorists", their victims will 

once

again be nameless. We can then expect the release of Black Hawk Down 

II.



Breaking our silence means not allowing the history of our lifetimes 

to be

written this way, with lies and the blood of innocent people. To 

understand

the lie of what Blair/Straw/Hoon call the "outstanding success" in

Afghanistan, read the work of the original author of "Total War", a 

man

called Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was President Carter's National 

Security

Adviser and is still a powerful force in Washington.



Brzezinski not long ago revealed that on July 3, 1979, unknown to the

American public and Congress, President Jimmy Carter secretly 

authorised

$500million to create an international terrorist movement that would 

spread

Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and "destabilise" the Soviet 

Union.



The CIA called this Operation Cyclone and in the following years 

poured

$4billion into setting up Islamic training schools in Pakistan 

(Taliban

means "student").



Young zealots were sent to the CIA's spy training camp in Virginia, 

where

future members of al-Qaeda were taught "sabotage skills" - terrorism.



Others were recruited at an Islamic school in Brooklyn, New York, 

within

sight of the fated Twin Towers.



In Pakistan, they were directed by British MI6 officers and trained by 

the

SAS.



The result, quipped Brzezinski, was "a few stirred up Muslims" - 

meaning the

Taliban.



At that time, the late 1970s, the American goal was to overthrow

Afghanistan's first progressive, secular government, which had granted 

equal

rights to women, established health care and literacy programmes and 

set out

to break feudalism.



When the Taliban seized power in 1996, they hanged the former 

president from

a lamp-post in Kabul.



His body was still a public spectacle when Clinton administration 

officials

and oil company executives were entertaining Taliban leaders in 

Washington

and Houston, Texas.



The Wall Street Journal declared: "The Taliban are the players most 

capable

of achieving peace. Moreover, they were crucial to secure the country 

as a

prime trans-shipment route for the export of Central Asia's vast oil, 

gas

and other natural resources."



NO AMERICAN newspaper dares suggest that the prisoners in Camp X-Ray 

are the

product of this policy, nor that it was one of the factors that led to 

the

attacks of September 11.



Nor do they ask: who were the real winners of September 11?



The day the Wall Street stockmarket opened after the destruction of 

the Twin

Towers, the few companies showing increased value were the giant 

military

contractors Alliant Tech Systems, Northrop Gruman, Raytheon (a 

contributor

to New Labour) and Lockheed Martin.



As the US military's biggest supplier, Lockheed Martin's share value 

rose by

a staggering 30 per cent.



Within six weeks of September 11, the company (with its main plant in 

Texas,

George Bush's home state) had secured the biggest military order in 

history:

a $200billion contract to develop a new fighter aircraft. The greatest 

taboo

of all, which Orwell would surely recognise, is the record of the 

United

States as a terrorist state and haven for terrorists.



This truth is virtually unknown by the American public and makes a 

mockery

of Bush's (and Blair's) statements about "tracking down terrorists 

wherever

they are".



They don't have to look far.



Florida, currently governed by the President's brother, Jeb Bush, has 

given

refuge to terrorists who, like the September 11 gang, have hi-jacked

aircraft and boats with guns and knives.



Most have never had criminal charges brought against them.



Why? All of them are anti-Castro Cubans. Former Guatemalan Defence 

Minister

Gramajo Morales, who was accused of "devising and directing an

indiscriminate campaign of terror against civilians", including the 

torture

of an American nun and the massacre of eight people from one family, 

studied

at Harvard University on a US government scholarship.



During the 1980s, thousands of people were murdered by death squads

connected to the army of El Salvador, whose former chief now lives

comfortably in Florida.



The former Haitian dictator, General Prosper Avril, liked to display 

the

bloodied victims of his torture on television.



When he was overthrown, he was flown to Florida by the US government, 

and

granted political asylum.



A leading member of the Chilean military during the reign of General

Pinochet, whose special responsibility was executions and torture, 

lives in

Miami.



THE Iranian general who ran Iran's notorious prisons, is a wealthy 

exile in

the US.



One of Pol Pot's senior henchmen, who enticed Cambodian exiles back to 

their

certain death, lives in Mount Vernon, New York.



What all these people have in common, apart from their history of 

terrorism,

is that they either worked directly for the US government or carried 

out the

dirty work of US policies.



The al-Qaeda training camps are kindergartens compared with the 

world's

leading university of terrorism at Fort Benning in Georgia. Known 

until

recently as the School of the Americas, its graduates include almost 

half

the cabinet ministers of the genocidal regimes in Guatemala, two 

thirds of

the El Salvadorean army officers who committed, according to the 

United

Nations, the worst atrocities of that country's civil war, and the 

head of

Pinochet's secret police, who ran Chile's concentration camps.



There is terrible irony at work here. The humane response of people 

all over

the world to the terrorism of September 11 has long been hijacked by 

those

running a rapacious great power with a history of terrorism second to 

none.

Global supremacy, not the defeat of terrorism, is the goal; only the

politically blind believe otherwise.



The "widening gap between the world's "haves" and "have nots"', says a

remarkably candid document of the US Space Command, presents "new

challenges" to the world's superpower and which can only be met by 

"Full

Spectrum Dominance" - dominance of land, sea, air and space.

But the OUTCOME, by the 60s, was a vast INCREASE in democratic activity in the US (inc.the mainstreaming of Civil Rights positions) and a global outburst of dissent w/o parallel in 20th century history. Pilger is a TERRIBLE political analyst: kinda Chomsky w/o the smart stuff.

His basic assumption — which Chomsky can also tumble into, and which all lizard-ppl theorists absolutely believe — is that the GLOBAL RULING CLASS operates as an utterly smooth, conflict-free, motivationally unified, communicationally self-transparent cadre. Even as a rallying cry, this is totally counter-productive.

The biggest problem with conspiracy theory as broadly described is that it assumes a *massive* amount of people/interests/things keeping one hell of a secret. Whereas what happened on September 11 makes much more sense -- a very small, focused group keeping a secret.

This is such an important point - and it is supported by the way effective revolutionary conspiracies actually work: for just the reasons Ned mentions, the larger organization is split into tiny cells of a few people, with no-one knowing very much about the larger framework of the organization and its goals. Therefore, only a few people ever have to keep the "one hell of a secret" - or even know more than a few component parts of the big secret.

The other problem I find with this kind of stuff is this: if it's all such a big secret, why am I able to go to k-zillion sources to read about it? and why hasn't the ruthless all-powerful machine silenced the revelations of the conspiracy?

Regarding the Federal Reserve: It appears pretty widely known that The Federal Reserve uses the word "Federal" in the title, but it is actually not federal, but privately owned. One person defending the Federal Reserve said this: "Yes, the Federal Reserve banks are privately owned, but they are controlled by the publically-appointed Board of Governors. The Federal Reserve banks merely execute the monetary policy choices made by the Board. In addition, nearly all the interest the Federal Reserve collects on government bonds is rebated to the Treasury each year, so the government does not pay any net interest to the Fed."

Or to put it even MORE bluntly, no it wasn't.

= my favourite helpful interpolation

And, I do remember CNN reporting that eyewitnesses saw explosions on each of the floors. It is odd that the planes weren't shot down and several sources have said we were "aware" of the threat. I have trouble believing that the FBI is as clutzy as we were led to believe.

I did also see all the info about the "pancaking effect", but isn't it true that the black boxes and the Twin Towers were built to withstand significanly more heat than spaceships encounter... like hundreds of times more heat? I also heard that on CNN. It's weird that people just come to conclusions like, "Well, I guess you just don't know... those boxes are gone for good... Pancake effect explains why the thing fell". It really doesn't explain, because they were built to withstand plane crashes. One floor should not have pancaked onto the next. The increased weight is why the pancake effect occured. And it does seem weird that the FBI has been able to round up terrorists left and right since the attacks, but couldn't do a damn thing about the warnings prior to 911.

But, as I said, it's a freaky conspiracy theory. I remember Ned posted one long ago that made the USA look suspicious and that freaked me out, too. Ned, do you still have that link?

There isn't much I genuinely believe, mark. Many people have thought this was shady from day one, but most people are content to rally around a common enemy. I was saying our gov't deserves to be attacked just before 911 happened, so I'm obviously not big on our foreign policy.

US and Israel in cahoots before 9-11
US and Israel at odds before 9-11

they combine to cancel out the total force, not double it (as original poster seems to think cf his openly contradictory multi- analysis of vietnam); snce you haven't bothered addressing this catastrophic logical flaw upfront (ie by explaining which of the two you favour and why), your extrapolation is suspect (ie i'm left thinking, why d'you select some facts/ "facts"/whatever, and ignore others)

i'm not going to do your work for you nude; either you want to persuade me or you don't

otherwise it's just going "ooh spooky"

(also — not a big deal in itself, but confusing — you seem to mean by "coincidental" the opposite of what i thought it meant: if all these facts are "coincidental" does that mean you *don't* think they add up to a grand theory, or that you *do*?)

Some New York Times links for you then, regarding the World decision that zionism was racism and the Israel walkout: NYTimes Query List. Unfortunately, you have to pay to read these articles, but the titles alone convey the point. You could always go to the public library and look it up on microfiche.

By the way, pulling up a NYT article on the Durban conference which everybody already knows about doesn't do anything to legitimize anything else in the article. But the fact that I have to point this out to you goes along way to explaining why arguing with you is pointless.

If you think I'm going to sit here and try to present evidence that there is a jewish conspiracy, I'm afraid you're in for a long wait, my friend. I am able to differentiate between interesting facts and uninteresting conjecture.

This is an absolutely true fact, isn't it? As I said, the intro and the endtro of the conspiracy are mostly factual and the outcome of 911 looks oddly beneficial to the US in freaky ways that make me go... "OOOOH SPOOOKY!"

Wait for what, moron? You already did present "evidence that there is a jewish(sic) conspiracy" when you posted the e-mail as "must-read", "pretty realistic", having "true insights", etc. The whole point of that article is to imply that there was a Jewish conspiracy behind the bombing of the WTC. You can back-pedal now, but you laid a big stinking turd of hate-filled propaganda on the board as if it was the best thing since sliced bread and then lashed out at anyone who challenged you on it.

The "true insights" are the facts prior and after 911, "pretty realistic" refers to the Twin Towers destruction seeming UNREALISTIC the way it went down. It seems "pretty realistic" that there was more to it than what has now become common belief.

However, "pretty realistic" does not mean "entirely realistic" and I could easily believe that CNN has pretty much told the whole truth, as well.

I mean, christ, the equiv. would be for a vietnamese person to say -- "hey, you're white, that whole war and destruction of our country was your fault."

Those are the only two points I even contested because they are part of what I thought was interesting and factual. I have no problem with the comment that JFK wasn't assassinated in the name of Israel or that this conspiracy "feels" antisemetic.

Fact is, jackass, there hasn't been any further challenges EXCEPT these two facts, which are facts.

It's a lot easier to toss out red herrings than to explain why you felt it was so important that everyone read an article that argues, among other things, that the Mossad-controlled Kennedy-killing CIA bombed the WTC in order to hasten the arrival of the One World Government. Or why you've twice supplied ILM with anti-Semetic screeds and told us all that they were fascinating must-read material.

So who did NudeSpock claim to "be" anyway? Wotta dick.

The Associated Press

IDAHO FALLS, Idaho – A Pocatello weatherman who gained attention for an unusual theory that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the Japanese mafia using a Russian electromagnetic generator has quit the television station.

Scott Stevens' last appearance on KPVI-TV was Thursday.

His departure comes after station officials learned a link labeled "Make a Donation" on Stevens' Web site, www.weatherwars.info, where he expounds on his theory, opened a payment form connected to Stevens' KPVI e-mail address.

Still, station manager Bill Fouch, who'd told Stevens he should keep his views separate from his TV role, insisted his former employee wasn't forced out.

"Scott advised me several months ago that he wouldn't renew his contract so he could devote full time to this," Fouch said. "He wants to get right at it."

Stevens believes a little-known oversight in physical laws makes it possible to create and control storms using a Cold War-era weapon allegedly made by the Russians in 1976. The nine-year KPVI weatherman said he's received 120,000 hits on his Web site in two days, now gets about 100 e-mails a day and has 15 radio bookings in the next five days.

"I needed more time to do everything that's been put in front of me," said Stevens, 39. "I have not been able to dedicate the 40 hours a week to this place."

Earlier this week, scientists told the Idaho Falls Post Register the theory was bogus.

"It's laughable to think it (Hurricane Katrina) could have been manmade," said Rob Young, a hurricane expert at Western Carolina University in Cullowhee, N.C.

OMG, the "Designer" is not so "intelligent" after all.

the upside of it was the old-ilx appeared to be a hotbed of good-faith arguments/debates, rather than threads that erupted into flames as soon as somebody said something disagreeable. Can it be an accident that these threads "erupt" into flames? No no it's the Mossad sez I

I know what I'm doing.

okay, first thing you wanna do when setting up your website is....

yes, but he doesn't explain why it's 'laughable'. I SMELL COVERUP.

WHO KNEW

http://www.thewe.cc/thewe_/images_5/_/9_11/all_question_9_11.jpe

J. Culp, D. Lynch, N. Spock

wow so vidal sassoon thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy huh

Even Coyotes are laughing at the idea 9/11 was done by Al-Qaeda.

Who the heck is G. Belafonte?

Mimi?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/TEOM_cover.jpg/200px-TEOM_cover.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/images/2006/07/03/brolin_lead_203x152.jpg

"It was publicised on the news in Saudi Arabia that thousands of Jews did not go to work in the Twin Towers that morning of 9-11. How did they know not to go? Who told them? Was it the Mossad? Did they know because they were behind the attacks?"

the hard questions

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/lixnixn/luke_skywalker.jpg

"It was publicised on the news in Coruscant that thousands of Tatooinians did not go to work in the Death Star that morning of 9-11. How did they know not to go? Who told them? Was it the Rebellion? Did they know because they were behind the attacks?"

Who the heck is G. Belafonte?

That would be Gary Belafonte. He's renowned, but in smaller circles.

hahahahaha oh man the beginning of this thread

Heh, just seeing the post title again, I can't believe I wrote "must read!" It sounds like spam!