Tarantino Poll

ethical decisions Butch makes in the movie:

- to take the money to throw the fight.
- but then he doesn't throw the fight.
- runs away from the consequences of this action
- initially tries to kill marcellus
- sees an opportunity to save his ass by saving marcellus. does so.

I don't see the break you're referring to. At every point he's driven by self-interest/self-preservation.

"but how does Travolta's character arc tie in with this at all?"

He doesn't have sex with Uma!

omar i dont know what this means but as soon as i saw that slash posted i was like 'i bet omar posted this'

― kanellos (gbx)

whenever u call me i'll be there (with slashfic)

#2 and #5 are really the only ethical decisions Butch makes.

#1, #3, #4 are all basically acts of survival.

He doesn't have sex with Uma!

and screwing every chick that comes his way is somehow part of an ethical code? he doesn't screw her because he knows it would mean getting killed! this is not an ethical decision.

he dies

"and screwing every chick that comes his way is somehow part of an ethical code?"

I totally spaced all the sex Travolta had during PF!

butch's normative ethical code is street ethics - fuck me, I fuck you back. in this he's pretty consistent. butch doesn't have to show mercy, but he does (same goes for julius). if you don't see butch's decision not to leave the pawn shop as a moral one I'm not sure what to say...

in a way these scenarios are almost like flannery o'connor - broken people having moral epiphanies, receiving grace via traumatic violence.

yeah but not cuz he had sex with Uma. his death is random, meaningless, a joke.

xp

I totally spaced all the sex Travolta had during PF!

you implied that sleeping with Uma would be part of his ethical code. the implication being his ethical code involves sleeping with whatever women present themselves to him.

if you don't see butch's decision not to leave the pawn shop as a moral one I'm not sure what to say...

I think it is (he could just leave Marcellus to die, and he'd likely be off scot free), but I don't see it as a dramatic break really. not in the same way Julius' is.

xp I was joking, Shakey. Besides we all know that he didn't sleep with her because he's a closeted homo.

lol

ugh and I haven't even started in on how horrible Willis' girlfriend is. and that scene with Willis in the taxicab. just awful.

nonetheless if u see travolta's arc as a problem wrt this morality ethical break thing, which u do, the fact is that it ends in death.

u see travolta's arc as a problem wrt this morality ethical break thing, which u do

you do? how so? what morality/ethical code does he break? how is NOT sleeping with Uma somehow an ethical decision?

I think it is (he could just leave Marcellus to die, and he'd likely be off scot free), but I don't see it as a dramatic break really. not in the same way Julius' is.

butch has been motivated by nothing but cold-blooded self-interest through the entire movie, so I think it's a pretty dramatic break to decide to save the life of a man who was just trying to kill him (and also he has no guarantee that marcellus won't *still* try to kill him). it's a selfless act of mercy. I won't go into how it ties to the story of the watch but the themes are pretty tightly bound here.

now if you hate willis' or de maderios' performances, that's a different story. but saying pulp fiction is some slapdash bucket of odds and ends is just way off.

right, so he just plows on being a hired gun and dies - consistent with ed's reading. xp

vv thinks jules' decision to leave is bullshit as are the reasons for it, a decision which would have saved his life if he'd also decided to leave the game for the ethical and moral reasons explauined in the diner speech?

like he said^

now if you hate willis' or de maderios' performances, that's a different story. but saying pulp fiction is some slapdash bucket of odds and ends is just way off.

I do hate Willis and De Madeiros performances fwiw.

the moral quandary thing is pretty clearcut with Jules - I don't think it's tied in well with the other plots. Saying Vega dies cuz he disagrees with Julius is... interesting tho.

(which doesn't have anything to do with sleeping with Uma - which is, again, like a third of the movie)

vince's decision not to sleep with mia isn't necessarily the only branch here. vince witnesses the miracle of mia's resurrection yet chooses to continue his life of crime - ergo he dies.

what in Mia's resurrection would imply he should leave a life of crime? I don't get it.

what in vince and jules not getting struck by bullets should imply they should leave a life of crime? they just got lucky! but jules point is, miracles are afoot. shortly afterwards vince experiences another one and still doesn't get it. this stuff is subtle but not accidental.

agree that the film's pretty leisurely, so if you don't like the scenery it's gonna suck 4 U

what in vince and jules not getting struck by bullets should imply they should leave a life of crime?

I was gonna bring this up as well, in that it's not exactly an "I saw a statue of Jesus crying tears of blood!" moment or anything, but Jules does a bunch of speechifying about it and the script tries hard to sell his conversion on this point. In his scenery-chewing way, Jackson sells it.

but yeah the scenery of Willis and Travolta bugs me

I think willis' and travolta's performances are pretty solid + amusing

easy to forget but travolta's perf here completely revived his career, I did not see that one coming

that scene where travolta pushes the intercom and says "hello" and gets a laugh out of me every time either proves I'm an idiot or that the guy was in a state of grace as an actor

how is it easy to forget?! after this the dude flooded the market with one unbelievably shitty movie after another! Michael. Battlefield Earth. Wild Hogs. Phenomenon. Swordfish.

xp

I'm reminded of it every time I see his bloated thetan-hating smirk

Face/Off was OK. I didn't realize he was doing a Nicholas Cage impression the whole movie.

yeah but it was big budget marquee crap, he was married to the look who's talking franchise the year before PF

btw I stole that state of grace phrase from del toro on whale and I'm going to be using it on the reg so

also feel like "tarantino revives another aging actor's career" has been something that's followed him at least up until IB

yeah but it was big budget marquee crap

you say this like it's a good thing. I mean obviously it was a good thing for Travolta, it's sort of a tragedy for the rest of us.

after this the dude flooded the market with one unbelievably shitty movie after another! Michael. Battlefield Earth. Wild Hogs. Phenomenon. Swordfish.

But you're forgetting he had a string of critical and commercial hits too; you're just naming the obvious dogs.

it was your failure to recognize the miracle of PF that caused all this to befall us shakey

REPENT

of course the only one I can watch again is Get Shorty, and his Clinton in Primary Colors is a watchable misfire.

also feel like "tarantino revives another aging actor's career" has been something that's followed him at least up until IB

his taste in aging actors has improved, that's for sure (Carradine, Forster, Grier, Russell>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Travolta, Willis)

calling Primary Colors a watchable misfire is pretty OTM. the rest of his films are straight garbage. Face/Off has its moments, I'll give you that. But in the end it's pretty much a mess, with an unforgivable final scene.

travolta had some pretty good post pulp fiction/pre battlefield earth, his best one was probably get shorty.

travolta is pretty hilarious in face/off imo, his cage impression is totally all right. cage himself is a lot more fun though.

every frame of face/off is brilliant

1999 The General's Daughter
Warr. Off. Paul Brenner

1999 Our Friend, Martin (video)
Kyle's Dad (voice)

1998 A Civil Action
Jan Schlichtmann

1998 The Thin Red Line
Brig. Gen. Quintard

1998 Primary Colors
Governor Jack Stanton

1997 Mad City
Sam

1997 Face/Off
Sean Archer / Castor Troy

1997 She's So Lovely
Joey Germoni

1996 Michael
Michael

1996 Phenomenon
George Malley

1996 Broken Arrow
Maj. Vic 'Deak' Deakins

1995 Get Shorty
Chili Palmer

1995 White Man's Burden
Louis Pinnock

1994 Pulp Fiction
Vincent Vega

Most of those pre-Battleship Earth were #1 box office hits. He probably scored the best second act of any actor of the last thirty years.

whenever im talking to someone about a beloved washed up actor i usually throw in a plea to tarantino to try and revive their career (c'mon bro, you know you can find a part for cynthia rothrock)

like I said, all those movies are terrible. some more terrible than others.

I could imagine Tom Cruise subbing in for Travolta in Face/Off with no detriment to the movie, but this is not so for Pulp Fiction.

Pam Grier sure went places, didn't she.

also feel like "tarantino revives another aging actor's career" has been something that's followed him at least up until IB

more like "tarantino plucks another fallen actor briefly out of obscurity"