2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

He's sucked tonight. He looks like he would prefer reading Middlemarch in his favorite chair tonight.

Josh Marshall's right:
Okay, nastiness interlude didn't last long. Back to health care. Barack's answer was, I think, a good illustration of the bind Hillary's in at the moment. He keeps drawing back from fights and lays out policy differences which he says reasonable can disagree on, etc. Kind of like a boxer who won't let an opponent get in close or a football team ahead late in the game who won't call anything but safe ground plays that run the clock and give little opportunity to force a turnover.

The National Reivew, of all places, has a good point too:
Barack Obama does make people feel good, which is remarkable given that he spends so much time talking about how bad things are. We're going broke, we're losing a war to a third world country, we're all working three jobs and still can't afford our meds, our souls are sick, etc., etc.

It's an amazing dichotomy. Hillary Clinton right now could announce she's handing out $100 bills and people would yawn. Barack could then announce he's taking the 100 bucks away, and people in the crowd would faint with excitement.

okie, lol @ AP headline

"Obama, Clinton differ slightly on Castro"

shut up already barack with the 'i was born to a single mother' line

Barack would like to tell you a story he's never told anyone before

hilary whooped his butt on the last question!

man that was boring

standing o?!

i feel like hillary had the last quarter of that debate totally in hand.

I... guess. I dunno I missed some but all in all it was pretty yawnsome.

my hrc friend was like "hil is gonna make me cry" re the bit about influences

WHO WON TONIGHT?

America won, as usual, Daniel.

no one wins in these (or any?) debates

Obama's goal was not to land a deathblow, but to avoid making a mistake. That's what he did. Hillary made a minor one, but these things just don't matter much.

Yeah without Hillary blowing Barack out of the room this debate wasn't going to mean a whole lot. She didn't, so it doesn't.

the only thing blowing out of the room was Barry's pad of paper. I think he was using it as a distraction.

America won, as usual, Daniel.

Thank G-d for that. I was worried.

I'll bet Jack ends up getting Claire killed.

Whoops, wrong thread.

yea, i don't think hillary succeeded at anything she really needed to do tonight to make the debate actually matter. obama gave a really solid performance -- his iraq answers as always were spot on, he did a great job answering the commander-in-chief question, and all in all he gave a lot more beefed-up, specific answers.

he handled the plagiarism question almost perfectly, and his comments made hillary's remarks seem petty. josh marshall at TPM described it pretty well.

i don't know if i'd say there was a winner. hilz is a solid debator, i think, but as mentioned she really need a blowout and this didn't even come close. if anything, i think it only benefitted obama.

Anyone going to ask Hill whether she came up with "change you can Xerox" herself?

haha

I think the final statement from Hill was great

apparently daily kos is abuzz with that last bit, people discussing whether it was a "valedictory moment or an effective concession of the nomination"

which bit?

Yeah hoos, there was certainly a tone to her voice there at the end where she almost seemed to have come to terms, perhaps, with the likelihood that she might not be president.

SEN. CLINTON: Well, I think everybody here knows I have lived through some crises and some challenging -- (laughter) -- moments in my life, and -- (interrupted by cheers, applause).

And I am grateful for the support and the prayers of countless Americans. But people often ask me, how do you do it, you know, how do you keep going,and I just have to shake my head in wonderment because with all of the challenges that I've had, they are nothing compared to what I see happening in the lives of Americans every single day.

You know, a few months ago I was honored to be asked, along with Senator McCain, as the only two elected officials to speak at the opening of the Intrepid Center at Brooke Medical Center in San Antonio, a center designed to take care of and provide rehabilitation for our brave young men and women who have been injured in war. And I remember sitting up there and watching them come in: those who could walk were walking; those who had lost limbs were trying with great courage to get themselves in without the help of others; some were in wheelchairs and some were on gurneys. And the speaker representing these wounded warriors had had most of his face disfigured by the results of fire from a roadside bomb.

You know, the hits I've taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country. And I resolved at a very young age that I'd been blessed, and that I was called by my faith and by my upbringing to do what I could to give others the same opportunities and That's what gets me up in the morning. That's what motivates me in this campaign. (Cheers, applause.) And -- and you know, no matter what happens in this contest -- and I am honored. I am honored to be here with Barack Obama. I am absolutely honored.

(Cheers, applause.) And you know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people, and that's what this election should be about. Thanks. (Cheers, applause.)

I'm only reading what's reprinted above, but yes, that's absolutely HRC preparing a dignified and graceful exit or concession.

And thank goodness for that. You know, after dozens of stories about what the Clintons would perhaps do to wrest the nomination from Obama, what depths they might sink to, HRC might actually restore -- or even enhance -- the Clinton brand if she is perceived as the person who refused to engage in those types of dirty tricks, and helped unify the party.

She might also be cannily positioning herself as underdog.

Probably both! Neither one has it in the bag until TX/Ohio happen, I think. If she takes one or both she's the Underdog Made Good, if she loses both her Graceful Exit is prepared.

SHE IS A TACTICAL GENIUS.

kinda sucks that the "change you can xerox" line is in all the headlines right now

obama gave a great response but that ain't the headline

She might also be cannily positioning herself as underdog.

Dreamland
Home sweet dreamland

http://a673.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/31/l_647f8d295d92df1f39ba29398fab2248.jpg

what does that even mean

actual LOL

bahhhhhh this kinda blows. i was hoping the plagiarism thing would die pretty quickly, but this puts it right back in. i guess no surprises there, the zing's gonna get the attention rather than any substance, but it still sucks.

Yahoo headline is:
Who won Texas showdown?
Clinton accuses Obama of plagiarism, but he calls charge evidence of a "silly season."

re: big final Clinton speech

"Moments later, an email popped up from her communications director, Howard Wolfson. They just couldn't leave well enough alone. The subject line: Final Moment.

"What we saw in the final moments in that debate is why Hillary Clinton is the next President of the United States. Her strength, her life experience, her compassion. She's tested and ready. It was the moment she retook the reins of this race and showed women and men why she is the best choice."

So that maybe wasn't so spontaneous, either. Just better rehearsed."

xpost hmm that's not bad, most of the others i've read just have her zing

i lolled at silly season, knew that would get picked up.

Obama seriously needs to stop doodling on that notepad, he looked like he was falling asleep.

i thought obama was great. strongest performance so far, and he had well-reasoned responses to the questions. hillary was just okay until the final question, which she absolutely knocked out of the park. i enjoyed the debate! not yawni at all!

i dunno. If I were an outsider I might agree that Barry's ppl are delusional. dude keeps rising in the polls, triumphing against the somewhat mythologized clinton machine while msm fans the flames of hype (simultaneously questioning that hype) and creates talking points about his fervent followers, and then you tune into this debate to find this reasonably intellectual speaker who makes some good points, misses some good opportunities, 'um's and 'uh's a lot and who avoids straightforward questions like "when were you tested?" in order to stay on message in obv and robotic ways.

then again i spend too much time trying to figure out how uninformed voters perceive this shit.

he def flubbed the last question, but i also doubt that was something either of them were prepared for, and he had to go first. so i think he basically just rattled off 90 seconds from his stump speech. even he seemed uninspired by it. but honestly that was the only time i really felt like he was messaging (check that: the special interests/lobbyists lines that i hate he uses but i'm sure that genpop responds to that kinda shit): he just came off as smart and thoughtful and responsible.

YGS otm, i havent seen all his debates but of the ones i have this was his best
his answer on the plagiarism 'issue' was A+++

i keep wondering wtf people like cosmo are talking about w/r/t msm fans 'flaming the hype' when all the newswires are busier highlighting her 'u xerox change lol!' zingers

http://www.slate.com/id/2184696/