I just finished book #10 of Robert Jordan's stupid series.

Didn't want to get in another Song of Ice and Fire situation is all.

lyfe is a journey towards trust, we've all been hurt before. I read 6 thomas covenant books ffs.

In truth the painfulness of the filler is overstated - like Crossroads of Twilight doesn't really advance the plot at all but otherwise it's not a bad read! In the context of people waiting years for each book though it's that crushing realisation that you've just spent 2 years waiting, $30 buying and two sleepless nights devouring only to get... not very far along toward the end of the story.

I guess the other thing that's frustrating is how certain sub-plots get a lot of time spent on them when you know ultimately they're not going to add much to the main plot. Like, on the one hand i was pleased to see that whole plot about the Aes Sedai using the oath rod to test potential black ajah sisters in the tower get wrapped up in The Gathering Storm, but in retrospect... was it even necessary? The only thing it really added to the main plot AFAICT was to give Egwene the idea to use the oath rod in that way, which she would have been able to work out for herself (or Verin could have suggested it).

egwene is so inconsistent from ythis book to the last. Jordan/sanderson cant seem to decide if she's an asshole or maybe the best character in the entire thing.

Halfway through this one, she's an asshole.

Yeah, not wanting to derail the thread but the same sort of thing happened with George R R Martin. I mean, the last book was split in two, Part 1 came out in 2005 and we're still waiting for Part 2 (Sep 2011 at the moment but it's been delayed so many times who knows whether that date will stick or not).

well the big difference is that Robert Jordan got sick which impacted his ability to write, whereas George R R Martin appears to be spending all of his time getting photographed with female fans way out of his league

I love reading precis of plot points of fantasy/sf books I haven't read. Can't think of anything more intriguingly baffling. I'm lurking on this thread quite a lot because I'm interested in these books but will never, ever be bothered to tackle them beyond book 2.

egwene is so inconsistent from ythis book to the last. Jordan/sanderson cant seem to decide if she's an asshole or maybe the best character in the entire thing.

Halfway through this one, she's an asshole.

Yeah but I think one of the reasons she seems like an asshole is that we know stuff she doesn't about Rand.

^^^ exactly; in her position and with the facts she has at hand, most people would draw the same conclusions/behave the same way

It's amazing how much obsessive egwene hate there is on the interwebs though. Even before this book, but especially now. "RAND HAS SAVED THE WORLD SO MANY TIMES, ALL THAT STUPID BITCH CARES ABOUT IS HER INCOMPETENT WHITE TOWER!!"

part of the reason she doesnt know is that she's been smugly assuming stuff since book #2 or w/e.

He's all 'it's cool bro' now tho.

xp think the criticism of the aes sedai on that point was only acknowledged in this book tbh- the whitecloaks have been 'bad guys' since first appearing, and there's diffs btwn them but maybe not all that much sometimed.

Cf: testing of nyneave. Some sadistic shit

part of the reason she doesnt know is that she's been smugly assuming stuff since book #2 or w/e.

I meant what happened at the end of the last book.

If Rand had turned up at The White Tower like, one chapter before, and said the same thing, we'd all be like "NO BRO DON'T DO IT!"

na i'da been 'yeah man squash them, totes'

Cf: testing of nyneave. Some sadistic shit

Oh yeah, that was beyond brutal

Like, I generally think of the Aes Sedai is a sometimes misguided force of good, but that was just WOW

Between that and Galad taking over the Whitecloaks, it seems that Sanderson is merrily shuffling the factional status quo (kind of can't wait to see how Aviendha's visions are dealt with)

aes sedai = us imo, under elaida = bush admin, under egwene = hils clinton forsure.

Blowin ur minds

lol, Egwene as Obama analogue is kind of hilarious (and... a little scary)

elaida is gwb cmon we all know it

with Alviarin as Cheney...

eek

w....s?

DUDE NO

tbrr, i cant remember which aes sedai are good, bad, dead or just somewhere else at this stage.

But i dont think that sprawling complexity is a bad thing, in itself, as long as we keep trundling towards a kickass setpiece every couple hundred pages

pillowmate don cheney killed thread rip

haaaaaaaa

thats what you get for dallying with GOP ajah

I can't believe Rand's going to break the seals and let Ronald Reagan return to the world.

ayn rand al'thor

It's amazing how much obsessive egwene hate there is on the interwebs though. Even before this book, but especially now.

yah the dudes that are really ~furious~ w/egwene for not idk staring dewy eyed @ rand and apologizing for ever doubting him or w/e are p creepy. not sure where it comes from but shes been consistently one of the best characters in the books so f them

i dunno, i mean aes sedai man, y'know? need to read again, but not convinced that most of them don't do more harm than good in terms of getting to the end goal throughout this whole series. not sure it's all *crepey*, if you had a gang of dude-only professional obstructors stopping rand getting shit done, they'd have ben balefired off the face of the earth in prob book 4.

also, internal aes sedai political stuff is almost as bad as emo perrin, and a lot more common. should let the wise women in there for smackdown.

egwene and nynaeve easily the best of em, but the former is srsly reverting to annoying, counterproductive type so far in this book.

but yeah i guess there's prob a fair % of hate because she should obviously have married rand in bk 3 or w/e too, cos that's what women are for in fantasy. and egwene is more kickass than anyone else every now and then.

lol Rand has already gotten 3 of the main female characters of the series, I don't think he needs any more

yeah but one of them is elayne, tbf. PITA #1, if you could shift her over to the dark then they'd all quit within a week.

I don't think it's necessarily a sexist thing (may be giving your average fantasy fan too much credit) i just think the whole Aes Sedai know best thing rankles with people. He's The Dragon Reborn ffs. How exactly is Egwene more qualified on what to do Last Battle wise?

lol, no one can beat the Trakand children in the PITA stakes

poor Morgase

also yes, you are giving your average fantasy fan too much credit

eh i've been tryin to avoid the 'sexist' word cos i'm ilx's no 1 example, tbh. but yeah, exactly that- dude's got to get his dark one contest on, maybe you should be tryin to lend a hand?

tho tbf 3000 years of mad sorceror males maybe contextualise it a bit.

wait, morgase is actually #1 PITA, gawain kinda rules

galad is aight, i guess

i just think the whole Aes Sedai know best thing rankles with people. He's The Dragon Reborn ffs. How exactly is Egwene more qualified on what to do Last Battle wise?

until like two weeks ago in book time rand was clearly mentally unstable & kinda terrible at everything, ever. i mean its sorta a moot qn in some respects bcuz the pattern basically runs things anyways but its hard to argue that egwene isnt p much better at being a leader/making decisions/motivating ppl than rand imo

^^^ OTM

Basically, if this had been Perrin rather than Rand, the conversation would have been markedly different; Perrin would have explained WHY he wants to undo the seals to Egwene for starters rather than just going "hey I'm going to open the Dark One's prison, are you in?"

HE IS THE DRAGON REBORN. Nah, you're right though. Can i help it if i empathize with Rand's fast-track attitude after all these books? Dude just wants to get shit done.

nah, i disagree

rand is unstable, but dude's got a lot on his plate. he's not been responsible for anything like the number of major fuckups the aes sedai have been throughout the series. not sure he owes them anything, if it comes down to explanations or co-operation.

perrin's main problem is that he doesn't want to do anything, ever. couldn't really afford that attitude in rand's place

number none OTM, i think most of it is just 'well at least rand's as impatient as i am fo this bullshit 3 book negotiation to be fucking OVER'

He has major trust issues also. Locked in a box and all that.

he had to learn to think outside the box, what what

its hard to argue that egwene isnt p much better at being a leader/making decisions/motivating ppl than rand imo

i cant believe this, but yes i would argue this with you on the internet.

Egwene != the rest of the Aes Sedai, as evidenced by their inability to steamroll her

rand is unstable, but dude's got a lot on his plate. he's not been responsible for anything like the number of major fuckups the aes sedai have been throughout the series.

Did you not read the same series I read, where Rand not only started going batshit insane but almost killed his father and left multiple countries in anarchy and chaos out of a misguided attempt to "stay strong"?

Basically every major character has had triumphs and failures; Egwene nad (surprisingly) Mat come out as the most reliably successful of the Two Rivers cru

eh he nearly did that to his father in one paragraph, yeah sure. those countries are in anarchy and chaos cos the lords/aes sedai keep working at cross-purposes whenever he goes somewhere else for two days. and cos of end times etc.

egwene is kick ass, no doubt. but i think as a reader i get p frustrated by all the characters who're prioritising shit like their magic cults or kingdoms other than defeating the final boss.

mat's had it a bit soft, every time he gets in a scrape some dice roll and a dinosaur eats his enemies or w/e

eh he nearly did that to his father in one paragraph, yeah sure. those countries are in anarchy and chaos cos the lords/aes sedai keep working at cross-purposes whenever he goes somewhere else for two days. and cos of end times etc.

Well also because he kept marching across the countryside going "I am the Dragon Reborn, join me or be crushed", plus his grim crazy megalomania repelled Tuon and prolonged the fight with the Seanchan; you really can't frame all of these reactions completely divorced from the personality who instigated them.

The last two books could have been retitled Rand Finally Stops Fucking Up

WINTER'S BONE sounds liek a WOT book and i keep wanting to click that thread instead

i think he's tried to minimise fighting by offering the 'join me or be crushed', particularly since being locked in a box and the torture and etc, not sure how receptive the seanchan, for one instance, would have been to any other offer?