2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

it SHOULD poke holes in his status as the clean, honest senator - but i don't think it will, unless there's some verifiable evidence otherwise

well i wouldnt be surprised if more came out - but saying just cause you were aware john mccain is a scumbag there for its not news is a little uh - they gathered up a list of transgressions (including new info) that directly contradicts the general wisdom on the republican nominee for president - thats most certainly a worthy news story

its a worthy news story but without follow-up it will be mostly forgotten by the gen. election

not saying there won't be follow-up though.

yeah deej i'm inclined to agree that for people that follow this shit, mccain's ethics record isn't news. for millions of people who aren't pol-junkies, though, any major story that gives the media an excuse to point out inconsistencies in mccain's Myth is News and Informative and Worth Knowing.

xp damn

it's in for at least one news cycle and yeah will hopefully spawn follow-ups and in Wildest Dreams maybe even birth a narrative that McCain is a Facade

it SHOULD poke holes in his status as the clean, honest senator - but i don't think it will, unless there's some verifiable evidence otherwise.

Indeed, unless there's more there -- and there might be -- I think the NYT story will help McCain (he's already positioning himself, in his new fundraising efforts, as a victim of the leftist MSM, based on the NYT story).

It was hard to imagine what would get Rush & Co. on McCain's side without either side losing face, but here it is.

now those dudes were totes ready to line up duh

hahaha the NYT hates mccain so much they endorsed him

and this shit is not going away - just think of the g.e. ads - john mccain says he hates lobbyists, john mccain luuuuuuvs lobbyists.

and i do think the media is ready to rethink their man-crush.

god i hope so

lol

Clooney: I'm the Hilary of the Oscars

I think quite the opposite is going to happen. if anything this has generated a backlash against the NYT and directly benefited McCain, who since this story broke has seen an outpouring of support from the right as well as a spike in donations.

NYT screwed the pooch on this one.

x-post

No amount of wishful thinking is going to change the fact that this is a sub-par gotcha story. I am by no means a fan of McCain, nor do I believe for one second his 'straight talk' shtick, but even I am sympathetic toward McCain on his one. I think his appeal to cross-over Dems and Independents in a GE will be his 'stalwart' stand on Iraq/nat'l security and I doubt this will affect much.

what democrats are going to find his stalwart pro-war stance appealing? something like 70% of the american public want the war over and done

Wanting the war over is not the same as believing in timetables for withdrawl imposed by domestic political as opposed to military reasons. Given the huge but inchoate desire for an end to this morass, the Dems have mostly been cagey about what they want to do. McCain can use that to his advantage. I doubt it will work, though.

yeah McCain will paint himself as a "realist", i.e., the calm, rational voice of reason about defending our interests and democracy no matter how badly the war was initially handled etc. (never mind the fact that he can't keep himself from saying crazy shit like he STILL thinks the war was a good idea).

It won't matter tho. He doesn't have a prayer against Obama. The American psyche will favors the dynamic young man over the grouchy old weirdo every time.

to be fair people all over the world are kinda put off by grouchy old weirdos

He doesn't have a prayer against Obama.

I wish I had my youthful optimism back.

as a grouchy young weirdo, i think ppls are put off by us too
expo

Nobody sees McCain as a "grouchy old weirdo." The press loves him, Obama's never had to face a strongly negative campaign and is already on the defensive, we're going to be in Iraq for the next 10,000 years.

http://www.hillaryclintonisyournewbicycle.com/

HILLARY CLINTON DOUBLE DIPPED YOUR CHIP

HISLARY CILTON HAS A BUCKET

Meme's dead, dude

Nobody sees McCain as a "grouchy old weirdo."

maybe not yet, but next to Obama this will be the inescapable impression given

The press loves him,

the press loves him so much the most prominent paper in the country - that endorsed him - just made a blatant attempt to discredit him...? I think this love affair has been overstated.

Obama's never had to face a strongly negative campaign and is already on the defensive

He is?! He's killing Hillary right now! Whose tried to run a fairly negative campaign (or what do you call Bill's dumbass race-baiting and her distortions of his record?)

we're going to be in Iraq for the next 10,000 years.

Yeah that's a message the electorate is really excited about ennit. wtf lolz

You read slate
XPOST

boing!

Proof or no, backlash or no, a lot of people are going to get the gut feeling McCain did that lady. Especially when her picture pops up side-by-side with the wife.

I don't think most people are going to give a shit. Liberals as a rule don't really care about infidelity, and conservatives don't trust the source. Its a wash.

Obama's never had to face a strongly negative campaign and is already on the defensive

He is?! He's killing Hillary right now! Whose tried to run a fairly negative campaign (or what do you call Bill's dumbass race-baiting and her distortions of his record?)

Yeah his ability to stand up to Hill's HARD-HITTING accusations of plagiarism really fills me with confidence.

Liberals as a rule don't really care about infidelity

lol

Liberals as a rule don't really care about infidelity, and conservatives don't trust the source.

There is... another.

Trying to beat McCain just PLAYS INTO MCCAIN'S HANDS don't you see??!?

CNN headline: Schneider: Clinton's got tough road to hoe

You can't hoe a road.

YES WE CAN.

I can't see Ann Richards and HRC swingin' back beers.

Think she'll bring up the plagiarism?

ooh a Cuba question.

Not sure if "momentum" is the word Hillary wants to be using right now, in any context.

Freeze interest rates for five years?

lol @ obama just basically called clinton "silly"

haha Obama just hit that plagiarism shit outta the park

jesus christ Hillary is totally falling on her sword here did she just favorably compare her position on foreclosures to Dubyas

Hillary's "your words have to be your own words thing" is so disingenuous! I mean does she not have a goddamn speechwriter?

I was thinking the same thing, Clay.

Obama's overall point, in his campaign, is to say imply that Hillary can't compete unless she resorts to distortions and misrepresentations. This is where he's flipping the script on Atwater/Rove campaigning.

He's sucked tonight. He looks like he would prefer reading Middlemarch in his favorite chair tonight.

Josh Marshall's right:
Okay, nastiness interlude didn't last long. Back to health care. Barack's answer was, I think, a good illustration of the bind Hillary's in at the moment. He keeps drawing back from fights and lays out policy differences which he says reasonable can disagree on, etc. Kind of like a boxer who won't let an opponent get in close or a football team ahead late in the game who won't call anything but safe ground plays that run the clock and give little opportunity to force a turnover.

The National Reivew, of all places, has a good point too:
Barack Obama does make people feel good, which is remarkable given that he spends so much time talking about how bad things are. We're going broke, we're losing a war to a third world country, we're all working three jobs and still can't afford our meds, our souls are sick, etc., etc.

It's an amazing dichotomy. Hillary Clinton right now could announce she's handing out $100 bills and people would yawn. Barack could then announce he's taking the 100 bucks away, and people in the crowd would faint with excitement.

okie, lol @ AP headline

"Obama, Clinton differ slightly on Castro"