Irish politics discussion thread

i'm not sure what the downside to this bailout is that wont happen next year, and worse, anyway

nama is harder to call- the housing stock of the country, well i can see possibilities in having that in quasi-govt hands

yeah it's obv hard to unpick a lot of this if you're not an economist but it strikes me that we might as well just get the rotten leg cut off now rather than possibly just die in future. why is the gov being so cagey on this, surely there's no other way out...

and while the govt is still doing all it can to prop up property prices, nama cant work.

When repossessions start in earnest, the market bottoms out, etc, then there'll be activity and we'll see nama maybe freed up to dispose, deal, whatever

time for rotten leg amputation was two years ago. Govt, not just ff but the entire gang of em, in total denial at the time.

tbh, from eu perspective we are prob the rotten limb

amusing footnote: my friend's brother moved back to ireland after not being able to find a job in london, TO WORK FOR NAMA

have mates there or at ntma meself. Leeches to a man

hoping against hope that the euroheads simply come out today and force ff to remove the bank guarantee and all moneys paid under such so far be returned somehow.

when they take inda's gloved off and push him into a fight, he's good. It's not enough, by a long way, but his john wayne callout of cowen today should have been a standing order since 2008

dont get all enda support reactionary or i actually will just go illegal here

eh, no. I've always liked him personally on local level. Wasted as a td, and hopeless enough at statesman level, but v bright, warm and energetic to deal with. But no.

At the same time, i'll cheer anyone that calls ff out, publicly, loudly and pointedly. When miriam tore into lenihan over the bank guarantee it was about the first time i'd see him even questioned toughly on it- a multibillion euro call and nothing but murmurs about it for two years.

More confrontation, blame, diryiness required. It doesnt get shit done, but with the irish electorate i'm not sure they just dont need constant reminding.

watching the dáil live now, enda is a joke. he's reading off two bits of paper to say things like "this bailout has been a disaster", like ffs can he not write and remember a speech. then he gives fg a plug after that, nobody gives a fuck about who to vote for at this point...

cowen's massive statement- godawful boring lie. big letdown, wanted fireworks

Madam, – Knowing how things work in Ireland, it is unlikely we will ever get an honest answer as to why Brian Cowen and Brian Lenihan thought it right, ethically, morally or politically, to give a blanket guarantee to the entire Irish banking system in the middle of the night, or why Cabinet members literally couldn’t be bothered to get out of bed to ensure the decision being taken was the correct one. The consequences of that decision, which we have to assume was made to protect those with whom Fianna Fáil is financially compromised, are now becoming clearer. Yet, Mr Cowen and Mr Lenihan still refuse to face the reality of what they’ve done, and have done nothing to make banks provide verifiably accurate data or to give the Opposition full access to the State accounts. They are allowed peddle the myth that Ireland is “funded” until the middle of next year, conveniently not mentioning that funding is just more debt that has to be paid back.

So, instead of structurally reforming how the country is financed and how it spends its money, Mr Cowen and Mr Lenihan seem to think the solution is to rack up as much debt as possible and, by the stage that time- bomb explodes, they’ll have walked away with their golden pensions (so what do they care?).

It is truly astounding that the bank guarantee, at the stroke of a pen, transferred more debt to the Irish people than Cromwell transferred from them. How much more is the bunker mentality of Mr Cowen and Mr Lenihan going to cost us? How many more lost jobs, homes, suicides and broken families? We can only hope the EU has the sense to end this farce, and make Mr Cowen and Mr Lenihan face the reality that Ireland is broken and they are responsible, before they bring the whole EU down around them too. – Yours, etc,

DESMOND FitzGERALD,

letter from dessie to irish times.

bank guarantee is the big one.

Dropped the crom bomb!

Will the EU have any notion of scrapping the bank guarantee?

i'd hope so, but frankly dunno. They've got, as individual nations, reasons to want those debts honoured, but it's an absurd guarantee and o. Rehn has all but come out and said so this week.

good luck ireland western external territory of the european union

truth

guys - GOOD NEWS!!!!

http://www.obsessedwithsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/John-W-Henry-Red-Sox.jpg

Won't scrap the back guarantee, that's the surest way of blowing the situation up and having it spread as fast as possible.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/1117/1224283516687.html

can't think of anything i hate about ireland more than this sort of utter shite. now isn't the time to resort to the national pastime of slapping ourselves on the back cos we have tayto crisps and "everyone knows everyone", jesus, bit of national rage would be far more appropriate.

pull on the green shirt!*

*the green shirt costs 75 euro, no refund

i dont know ed. It will certainly need to be amended to allow for more of a hit to the bondholders.

1 @emmagination our turns of phrase – “get up the yard” “get out of that garden” “down there for dancin’”

Land of Joyce and Beckett, etc.

The ritual “no thanks I’m grand I’m only after a cup” followed by “well if you’re having one yourself”

yeah this is fucking brilliant.

havent read the article. Wtf does/could that sentence even mean ffs.

tbh that's just stock local garda cod irish patter on ilx

nah seriously, i feel literally euphoric when that happens

article is a list of 50 "good things" about ireland, tweeted to shane o'hegarty of the irish times...

"10 @greenscribbler Community – People will always know and remember you no matter how long you have been away"

sinister. and obv no other country in the world has small towns.

39 @SOIreland People going to amazing lengths to help each other. Never ceases to amaze me

unlike the total and utter cunts to a man that inhabit other countries.

x-post no second cup of tea for you...

@greendribbler the miasma of child neglect, rape and the stench of alcoholic hopelessness that lends the rural west it's grave, deep, solemn and sorrowful beauty

@irishbot101 when you walk into a shop and give someone money and get a product in return

say goodbye to that one

otm. barter is back.

economic policy this past ten years scripted by ronnie barter imo

Cowen is very sure that europe havent even noticed us. Inda thinks they're comin like those metal spiders in the matrix. Cowen reckons gilmore is 'not a very clever man'.

We three kings disorient are imo

you'd think there'd be a better word than "bailout" in the english language

'raking'

'rehn has absolutely bailed him out there, tell you what geoff. Cowen's never even seen him coming'

In a heated exchange with Brian Cowen, Labour leader Eamon Gilmore told Brian Cowen he was "handing over the deeds to the country" while Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny branded the government's banking policies "catastrophic".

"The IMF are not coming here this Thursday to say 'Keep at it, Brian', " added Kenny for good measure.

not wanting to take any side here (if there are sides) but what the fuck do kenny and gilmore think we should do?

score points

thats all anybody is doing, trying to position themselves historically

because the train is on the tracks now so theres nothing anybody can do

well, lets be fair.

The opposition have had no say in the vote for nama, i believe that labour opposed the guarantee.

They have consistently been denied the info to which they are entitled, even throughout calls for them to support a corrupt and defunct govt in the national interest. That in itself is a fair insult.

They havent been a great opposition, but the manner in which they've been stymied and kept in the dark this past two years, and in particular the last week where cowen and lenihan are just outright lying, is not only discourteous but edges on subversion of the way in which our democracy is meant to function.

When they get cowen and lenihan in a dail debate - rare enough- it's probably a lot to ask to at least get a public direct hit to the tune of 'this is your fault, not ours. There are no good options. We're not in this together.'. it's all they've been left, it's all true, and it's probably the most they can do to get ff out or under pressure. I'd rather they'd realised that game and played it from day 1, back in sep 2008.

You can bet ff will in opposition, and with far less justification.

it's a lot to ask for them *not* to go for the direct hit, sorry.

Just want to say that in all of this, the charity single of the aul triangle from hansard and dempsey may well be the final straw that breaks the back of law & order in fair erin. Ear poison

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/1117/1224283516687.html

can't think of anything i hate about ireland more than this sort of utter shite. now isn't the time to resort to the national pastime of slapping ourselves on the back cos we have tayto crisps and "everyone knows everyone", jesus, bit of national rage would be far more appropriate.

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, November 17, 2010 2:13 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

Absolutely OTM.

The country that can't bear not to be special.....

even if it's just to be hated from the Danube to Thames.

o good heres david mcwilliams.

'a bakery owner in kilkenny is worried matt. Lets forgive all mortgage arrears'

Sound, yeah, dave. richard curtis is looking for someone to soften his characterisations a bit, you might take a look.

the charity single of the aul triangle from hansard and dempsey

ah ffs i am fucking raging at this, thank fuck i'm not home till dec 21st.

are you ragin at the concept or the execution- cos if you've not heard it, it's worse than you think.

i've not heard it but the concept enrages me. i hate both of those bastards. don't fuck with that live in germany youtube version ever. only rivalled by dad having it as his too much booze anthem...

yeah classic booze anthem, german cikusenspiegel whatever is definitive for sure, they've tried to improve it by dempsey freestylin i think. it's hard to say wtf they were doing tbh.

rapping, ffs. one of my friends loves dempsey and always plays a song of his at weddings or get togethers, it would be grand apart from him being a doctor and this adding to his heroic upstanding young man loved by gfs and parents mystique.