The Power Of Nightmares/Adam Curtis

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The archive material in the Power of Nightmares, especially the first part, was fantastic, and I was wondering whether or not there would be the same kind of source material for this subject matter.

the computers determined probabilities and the future of human society! no doubt they will turn on us in subsequent episodes.

Now the machine has betrayed you once, I think they best policy would be to not set it next week.

or maybe they already have.

― Gukbe, Monday, 12 March 2007 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

If you do a search for it on i s o h u nt. com there's a torrent there. Just tried it and it seemed to work at about 30kB/s.

― Alba, Monday, 12 March 2007 15:04 (nineteen years ago)

I will look have to look for torrents of this.

The question is, does Curtis use game theory in his seldom-acknowledged role as co-editor of Popbitch?

I still like his documentaries, but I lost a lot of respect for him once I found out about this a while back.

― Nicole, Monday, 12 March 2007 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

I thought the Popbitch thing was a joke. Wow.

Somehow I respect him more, but question his ability to identify the descent of Western Civilisation into self-made slavery.

― Gukbe, Monday, 12 March 2007 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

I still haven't seen this latest one, but there was a whodunit sort of feel to Power of Nightmares that really worked. Maybe that sort of approach works less well when applied to a more abstract subject?

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 12 March 2007 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

He was also responsible for bringing us a dog who could say "sausages" on That's Life.

― Michael Jones, Monday, 12 March 2007 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

i think i preferred 'century of the self' to the last one probably cos it was more generalizing or something, in a way less contentious. they're not books, they're essays, and they're more thought-provoking than almost any other non-fic tv. i bet i asked where i could see 'the mayfair set' before and i bet someone told me.

― That one guy that quit, Monday, 12 March 2007 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

I started watching and wished I had been more in the mood for it, I got that sunday night drifting feeling. I've not seen much of his stuff other than nightmares but seems stylistically almost identical.

― secondhandnews, Monday, 12 March 2007 16:59 (nineteen years ago)

The Mayfair Set is terrific. You can watch it at:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6727851691163240683&q=mayfair+set

― Alba, Monday, 12 March 2007 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

it is identifiably 'adam curtis' but that's pretty much what he does, same goes for broomfield or moore or errol morris.

― That one guy that quit, Monday, 12 March 2007 17:04 (nineteen years ago)

I thought the Popbitch thing was a joke. Wow.

Even weirder is that Neil Stevenson, of Popbitch and The Face fame, is credited as a researcher for The Power of Nightmares.

― James Mitchell, Monday, 12 March 2007 20:19 (nineteen years ago)

Neil Stevenson --> Neal Stephenson

― elmo argonaut, Monday, 12 March 2007 20:21 (nineteen years ago)

hot damn alba, thanx!

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 09:20 (nineteen years ago)

Does that google video link only last for 12secs for anyone else?!

― toby, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 07:37 (nineteen years ago)

Oh dear - looks like they pulled it. It was the full thing, all four episodes in one, the other day.

― Alba, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 07:53 (nineteen years ago)

aw :(

this is what i thought bbc4 would be about, repeats of that kind of thing.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 09:33 (nineteen years ago)

I don't suppose anyone happened to save it before it disappeared?!

― toby, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

There's a RM download of it http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_drugsmoney.htm

― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 22:19 (nineteen years ago)

Well I still haven't seen the first one but I thought last night's episode was a doozy! Possibly a bit unfocused/overambitious with his examples but that's his steez, and I think he's already gone further towards working round to his thesis (that the atomized, self-interested definition of freedom advanced in Western democracies over the last few decades has perversely led to less freedom and greater control over individuals) than he did in Power of Nightmares (that both American neoconservatism and Islamic terrorism benefit certain people and make other people suffer: we never quite got to that part, despite it being promised in the introduction of each of that series' episodes).

Showing Muqtada al-Sadr's face to go unironically with the words "anti-democratic" in the script seems off to me. Yeah the guy has a great scowl and looks really evil but as far as opposition to Western-imposed democratic institutions goes, al-Sadr's hardly the poster boy. He formed a political party and worked with the new parliament!

Some of the footage made me wonder - "how did they get that piece of footage??" - rather than focus on what was being said. That said, I am consistently awed at the editing in Curtis' films and the open-minded inventiveness it must take to even think of looking for some of this stuff, much less the time it must take to track it down.

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 19 March 2007 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

Of tangential interest, u k n o v a seems to have have slots open for new users if you head there right now.

― Alba, Monday, 19 March 2007 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

(there's a bundle on there of Pandora's Box, The Mayfair Set, The Century of the Self and The Power of Nightmares at the moment, as well as The Trap)

― Alba, Monday, 19 March 2007 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

I'm helping to seed that bundle. Leech away!

― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 19 March 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

teh m4yf4ir set is also back back back on google video. might report back.

haveta say, 'the trap' -- based on seeing about 1/2 of it -- did sort of go over familiar ground a bit too much.

for some reason i had to read that berlin essay one time.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 11:13 (nineteen years ago)

ep 3 was just a little 80s/90s history reminder and precious little point beside it.

― Alan, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 11:16 (nineteen years ago)

Some of us need reminding!

In terms of structure this series went almost to the opposite extreme that Power of Nightmares did - whereas each ep. of PoN was very similar, variations on a theme, each episode of The Trap was very different - to the point where I was like "game theory? I forgot all about that"

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

I am saving up epsiodes 2 and 3. Perhaps I will watch them tonight. Either that or Father Ted.

― PJ Miller, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 12:14 (nineteen years ago)

you can't have too much of the score from 'north by northwest'.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

good ringtone.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

What's the other tune used in the last cpl of TRAPs? The sinister rumbling 80s synthy one, the one that goes dern dern-der-der-de-de... dern dern-der-der-de-de... ?

― NI, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:59 (nineteen years ago)

'assault on precinct 13'?

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

That's it, thanks.

― NI, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

Some valid criticisms here.

'Adam Curtis and BBC2 deserve much credit for keeping alive the idea of the ambitious, single-voice television essay. But there is something deeply worrying when the style of debate we are given plays with ideas without understanding them, and exploits our fascination with conspiracies. Difficult ideas take time to understand, and are not helped by fast cutting, the indiscriminate use of grainy documentary footage and suggestive music.'

www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=8358

― Pete W, Thursday, 29 March 2007 10:14 (nineteen years ago)

Some of the footage made me wonder - "how did they get that piece of footage??" - rather than focus on what was being said. That said, I am consistently awed at the editing in Curtis' films and the open-minded inventiveness it must take to even think of looking for some of this stuff, much less the time it must take to track it down.

"Curtis has a remarkable feel for the serendipity of such moments, and an obsessive skill in locating them. 'That kind of footage shows just how dull I can be,' he admits, a little glumly. 'The BBC has an archive of all these tapes where they have just dumped all the news items they have ever shown. One tape for every three months. So what you get is this odd collage, an accidental treasure trove. You sit in a darkened room, watch all these little news moments, and look for connections.'"

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1334518,00.html

― czn, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

The final episode was excellent. It managed to avoid wrapping things up too neatly, moved things on significantly (as Tracer said) and, by identifying the standard Western mindset about the big themes of recent political history, succeeding in its aim of shaking up that narrative-path-of-least-resistance.

I agree with Prospect's Max Steuer that sometimes Curtis represents ideas in a crude way (the times when I am familiar with them enough to know), but I'm not sure it's a fatal flaw, because a) in some cases, say, game theory, I think part of the point is that crude versions of complex ideas are what have influence, and b) to some extent, providing an alternative narrative is what matters, and good narratives have to be somewhat simplistic. You might call (b) propaganda, but I think The Trap was not quite that because, as I say, it didn't wrap things up too neatly, nor promote a clear answer to the problems it was outlining.

One thing I loved was the "every exit is an entry somewhere" aspect to it, when viewed alongside his other series - particuarly when Kissinger and the neocons made their appearance. In The Power Of Nightmares, when telling the story of excessive neocon zeal, Kissinger's realpolitik made him seem the good guy. This time, arch neocon Michael Ledeen almost looked a sympathetic interviewee, because the story was a different one. This is part of what I mean about it not wrapping things up too neatly.

ep 3 was just a little 80s/90s history reminder and precious little point beside it.

I was amazed at myself for how quickly I'd forgotten the huge events of early l990s Russia. The economic chaos and the storming of the parliament. I guess because I couldn't peg it neatly onto my sketchy synaptic schema.

As for Steur's complaint that Curtis dreams up a "conspiracy of evil thinkers" - I think that does Curtis a disservice. As I said upthread, he does tend to overemphasise the influence of certain individuals, but I don't think it's ever in the manner of a conspiracy theorist. It's more of a memetic approach, illustrated by certain figures.

― Alba, Thursday, 29 March 2007 22:08 (nineteen years ago)

i remembered most of the russian stuff but only in the sense i remember seeing them unfold on the news. but i'm pretty sure they were served up without much context. also i was about 12 so gizza break.

― That one guy that quit, Thursday, 29 March 2007 22:50 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

Internet Archive (plays fast or download)
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

follow episode 1 up with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5XuylNFLo

:-)

― dean ge, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 23:51 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

[/i]Curtis has a remarkable feel for the serendipity of such moments, and an obsessive skill in locating them. 'That kind of footage shows just how dull I can be,' he admits, a little glumly. 'The BBC has an archive of all these tapes where they have just dumped all the news items they have ever shown. One tape for every three months. So what you get is this odd collage, an accidental treasure trove. You sit in a darkened room, watch all these little news moments, and look for connections.'[/i] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis

how exactly does he do this? i mean he cant go through every single tape each time he makes a new doc, does anyone know his technique? does he keep a database of all interesting potential scenes?

is he working on anything now? i recently watched his 1996 doc about nick leeson & barings bank, such a fascinating well-made doc, i can't believe it hasn't been repeated recently.

― NI, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 00:57 (seventeen years ago)

i just started watching the 1st series of Mad Men and it seems kinda...informed by Century of the Self, somehow. maybe it's just that the production design reminds me of Curtis's archive footage.

― unaustralian (jabba hands), Wednesday, 11 February 2009 01:19 (seventeen years ago)

four months pass...

I wonder if this will come to London.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/jun/20/it-felt-like-a-kiss

― Alba, Saturday, 20 June 2009 09:36 (seventeen years ago)

Got tickets for the 9th, really looking forward to it. If it's a critical and commercial hit then no reason why it should not play elsewhere (a bit like Albarn's Monkey opera did after debuting at the MIF) - I imagine that Punchdrunk could adapt the staging for different venues?

― Bill A, Saturday, 20 June 2009 09:57 (seventeen years ago)

looks awesome!

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 20 June 2009 22:49 (seventeen years ago)

Can't say I'm keen - Albarn and Kronos, especially the latter, just can't stand anything they touch.

― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 21 June 2009 11:01 (seventeen years ago)

I hope the future interweb stuff gets broadcast on TV.

― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 21 June 2009 11:01 (seventeen years ago)

The entire run is completely sold out already up here.

― piscesx, Sunday, 21 June 2009 13:03 (seventeen years ago)

NI and myself saw the first night preview of IT FELT LIKE A KISS last night and chatted to the great man! I'd love to say more but i won't spoil the surprises.

― piscesx, Tuesday, 30 June 2009 23:41 (sixteen years ago)

it was just the most incredible thing. when i left i was a gibbering mess. ive set up a group on facebook for people who've 'done' it.

at the end curtis was saying it wouldn't be transferrable to tv because of all the copyright issues. i wish i could've recorded my brain for the 3 hours i was in there last night.

― NI, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 10:39 (sixteen years ago)

Wow - super excited for this now. Roll on the 9th! Seeing Kraftwerk tomorrow at the MIF too as "filler" until then...

― Bill A, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 11:47 (sixteen years ago)

sold out too fast. gutted.

― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Wednesday, 1 July 2009 14:57 (sixteen years ago)

MIF so far has been an absolute bobby dazzler - Kraftwerk were *awesome* and It Felt Like A Kiss properly ace too. Just got back from it and still mulling over the whole thing. I probably read too much beforehand so was ready for some of the setpieces (which removed a bit of the thrill), but as a whole it was so immersive and exciting: brilliantly conceived and staged, and the central film was amazing.

The reviews I've seen have a bit of a downer on the final section, but I enjoyed this part the best esp. the "do this" area and the final enforced separation from the rest of the group. Would really like to go through it again tbh to be able to spend more time nosing around the rooms and the "clues" etc.

― Bill A, Thursday, 9 July 2009 20:24 (sixteen years ago)

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