David Fincher -- c/d?

no, my tack is that there are politics but its when people (or directors) start emphasizing these politics that movies go wrong

good one shakey, very original

sorry, Shakey, I guess I was misreading your argument (not paying attention to deeznuts)

Fight Club's climax ("buildings being blow up to the pixies") is certainly meant to be SOME kind of grandiose statement. And the statement isn't entirely apolitical. Fincher seems more concerned with cinematic/emotional impact than with rhetorical/intellectual coherence, but that doesn't mean that the film isn't communicating a message and a point of view.

Fight Club rails hard against the emptiness of modern life, condemns (while coflictedly celebrating) the masculine cult of the asshole self, and ultimately seems to embrace a revolutionary nihilism as the only escape. But I think it's a mistake to take the film too literally. Those concluding scenes speak more personally than politically, and the apocalyptic destruction has more symbolic than literal significance. It's a love story, at heart. The buildings falling down stand in, half jokingly, for the fireworks we might expect to see behind such an embrace.

By destroying Tyler (and the world), our hero is really just destroying that his own emotional defenses, finally accepting himself as he is and in the process, succumbing to "true love". Cheezy, yeah, but I think that's what's really going on. And the touchy/feely core tends to negate whatever narrowly political read we might try to graft onto the film. It has political aspects, but if you read it as a tract, you're missing most of the point.

do you guys politically analyze james bond films to the same degree you do this one? do you guys think fincher was aiming for great cinema or a starting a new oct 1917? i mean wtf xp

I worked on 'The Game', thought it shallow and annoying even when it was still just the script and generally think Fincher is talented when it comes to cinematography but usually films scripts that somehow lack any real 'heft' to them and isn't very deft with his actors.

(not paying attention to deeznuts)

words to live by

contenderizer, that is exactly right, and you stated it better than i was going to manage.

it doesn't take any heavy analysis to see "politics" coming out of a movie, least of all james bond, christ. are you paying attention to what is happening on the screen? do you read a newspaper? that's all it takes, enjoy.

problem is people like you & goole seem to sincerely think the message of the climactic scene of fight club is 'viewers, blow up buildings like terrists did/will' & not 'damn this shit looks awesome when set to 'where is my mind' xp

"do you guys politically analyze james bond films to the same degree you do this one?"

Of course we do. Don't you?

that isn't at all what i've said, hope you've had fun

Eva Green is the EU
James Bond is the resistant Commonwealth...

no, i dont, thank god xp to alex

Bond wasn't the best thing to reach for here, DN.

It's okay I knew that already. Enjoy your life!

cold war vintage spy movies, are there POLITICS in there? lol u guys are paranoid!!

yeah guys there's no politics in James Bond roflz

when the fuck did i say there werent politics in JB movies

goole are you seriously some kind of soviet spy sent here from the past

you are either a moron or running an argumentative shell game to waste my afternoon

Got it, there are politics in JB movies, but deeznuts doesn't think about or want to talk about them!

wait so something's only political if it accomplishes something? this is a very novel definition of "political"

by "novel" I mean "wrong"

keep the lolz coming guys

i hate this thread because it is making me remember my 3 semesters of intro to lit crit back when i was a lol english major

I mean this is what you said:

ok, but realistically, the supposed politics of a movie dont mean jack shit

...unless you're discussing the politics of a movie

"but they won't change anything!" who fucking cares?

like those terrible moments where someone would raise their hands and make the trenchant point that a communist analysis couldn't be right for this text because communism wasn't even INVENTED yet, DO YOU SEE?

if you're a sociopath tho you can just eye the person making that point and know that they're an easy mark

3 semesters??

"but wait, joseph conrad went to africa so theres no way he could possibly be racist!"

Got it, there are politics in JB movies, but deeznuts doesn't think about or want to talk about them!

-- Alex in SF, Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:26 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

wait so something's only political if it accomplishes something? this is a very novel definition of "political"

by "novel" I mean "wrong"

-- J0hn D.

thank you, thank you

this is my point exactly: why the fuck does the 'SERIOUS BUSINESS/(politics)' of it matter if it DOESNT ACTUALLY MEAN SHIT

oh yes Carleton college was v v into the lit crit at that point. i should correct to say 3 trimesters, because we were still on some nutjob olde masters version of what a proper college should do. assholes. xpost

why would you discuss the meaningless politics of a movie guy xp

how could you not watch a movie about young men exiting life, becoming violent, and blowing shit up, and not be reminded of a thing or two out there in real life. seriously this takes no heavy lifting at all.

yes. it strikes me that it would take more effort to maintain a "this has no resonance to real life whatsoever" stance than the reverse!

Why would you discuss the meaninglessness of discussing the meaninglessness of the politics of a movie?

we're through the looking glass here people

alex/goole: where did fight club influence jack shit, other than a few dumbasses on this planet starting fight clubs, & were is your evidence for this

goole et al where is the evidence that fight club influenced mcveigh/osama/atta etc & if it isnt around then wtf are you talking about except some bizzarro hypothetical bullshit that doesnt actually exist

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT INFLUENCE

or at least i'm not. and since i can read, i don't think anyone else is either.

"Why would you discuss the meaninglessness of discussing the meaninglessness of the politics of a movie?"

if youre not talking about influence than why do you give a fuck about anything other than how exciting the visuals/sounds etc are, or do you not get that thats sorta the idea with fincher at his best

this is my point exactly: why the fuck does the 'SERIOUS BUSINESS/(politics)' of it matter if it DOESNT ACTUALLY MEAN SHIT

no, it's not your point exactly. meaning is not construed by, nor reliant upon, nor really concerned at all with results. it's meaning. it's a separate sphere. I don't know why I'm bothering to explain this to you. yet here I am. "it's not going to accomplish anything" doesn't mean the same thing has "it doesn't mean anything," nor is it an 1) interesting or b) insightful criticism of anything. At all.

or to put it another way, ABORTION TIME.

"if youre not talking about influence than why do you give a fuck about anything other than how exciting the visuals/sounds etc are, or do you not get that thats sorta the idea with fincher at his best"

Mind-boggling stupidity here^^^

yeah & 'meaning', whatever the fuck that ultimately means, in cinema & literature & music, takes a serious backseat to the means of its expression, which is what the debate should be centered about xp

hating on directors/novelists/rock stars/rappers/actors/poets because of their perceived politics is stupid

You have a degree in point-missing, don't you?

state frankly for my retarded ass what your point is, then

deez, what about, say, social realism? are we to ignore the politics of the grapes of wrath? (just curious how far you're willing to take this)

hating on directors/novelists/rock stars/rappers/actors/poets because of their perceived politics is stupid

I tried real hard to spell out just how wrong this is but it blew up the spreadsheet