Just when you thought it was safe - OK CUPID PART 3: The Return of the WOO!

Above, my proto-rant was not about not replying to initial messages (which I see as totally valid), but rather at suddenly stopping replying in a conversation.

If you've been actually scared or threatened etc. then that's a different matter, but I think that's rare.

I know that OKC is not the same as real life, so maybe my comparison to walking away from a face-to-face conversation doesn't hold that much water, but I still maintain that it is rude to just stop replying to someone when you've been properly messaging back and forth without giving some kind of goodbye or other closure, and perhaps even a reason.

Sometimes even the mere act of suggesting a meet up will give an indication of how keen they (or indeed, you) are.

Like, there's a big difference (to me at least) between someone going "yeah, I guess depending on where you work we could maybe meet up at lunchtime or something..." and "yeah, great. I can do tomorrow night or Saturday if you prefer?"

And also if you're vacillating yourself on whether it's a conversation you want to continue or not, asking yourself "do I want to meet this person?" is a good way of getting a gut reaction.

I suppose it is, really, an endless case of whittling down because, like, there's thousands of people on that site, and you can't possibly date them all. I kinda have to go on gut reactions with romance-related things because whenever I've overthunk it, I end up talking myself out of what I really want and into something bad.

What's the difference to you between those two sentences? I don't see one.

I just don't understand the idea of living in a world where meeting someone off the internet is a weird thing.

It isn't any weirder than replying to old-fashioned personals ads, but I dunno - it feels contrived? It feels more blatantly transactional?

Don't let conversations go longer than 3 exchanges (from each of you) without suggesting meeting up. Any longer than that, you've moved into penpals and you risk having too much expectation when you meet.

This sounds like a recipe for disaster, possibly even a recipe for personal danger.

There's a big difference! x-post to Krakow.

The first is vague, non-committal, implies that it does not really matter to the person if you meet or not, it's a maybe at best.

The second is a definite yes, followed by concrete suggestions, this person not only wants to meet you, but has actually suggested that they have thought through a variety of options with meeting you in mind. In addition, suggesting meeting "tomorrow" shows that they are keen, excited, but an alternate suggestion in the future suggests that they do not presume to monopolise your time, but rather suggests two equally prioritised options.

Option 1 puts all of the organising and deciding and even worse, arranging on the person you are asking, which kind of negates the point of asking at all. Don't be vague. Be specific, but offer a choice, especially if you want the person to agree to go out with you, because "would you like to do option A, or option B" provides a clear-cut way of accepting or refusing politely. The former, they pick an option, the latter, they politely say that neither is convenient. On the rare occasion that the person is actually busy on both dates, it provides them with the clear way of expressing a definite interest, which would be to say "I can't do A or B, but would you be able to do C?" Also, psychologically, people are much more likely to pick one of two clearly presented options than have to invent their own option. It's just easier.

Clear options, clear answers, less confusion.

Granted, this is the sort of thing that works for me. Other women on this thread may offer differing opinions? I'd be interested to hear if other women hate the faff and like the clearness as much as I do.

I took 'suggest meeting up' to be a slightly non-committal statement BUT a sincere one that you'd be prepared to meet, not an actual organisation of date time location etc - that should come naturally (but there's never harm in asking, and you should do so pretty much as soon as you're both agreed to meet! Say, within five or six emails)

So basically a bit from both of Kate's camps. When it comes to suggesting a date, you have GOT to be decisive, and precise.

As I say, I prefer to meet sooner, but not necessarily in a datey way, more in a pleasant lunch-or-walk way

This sounds like a recipe for disaster, possibly even a recipe for personal danger.

Oh yes, of course, you're right, I forgot. THE INTERNET IS FULL OF CREEPY DANGEROUS PEOPLE.

Unlike bars, or anywhere else you're likely to meet single people.

You always do Safety First and exchange phone numbers, and leave the phone number, and a description of where you are going, with someone who agrees to check in on you post-date. It's actually much safer than meeting some dude from a bar because they have left huge chunks of their personal information across the web during the course of their setting up a profile and corresponding with you.

I have only ever really met one serious psycho through the internet, and trust me, that wasn't on a dating site.

The asking for date comes after you have agreed to meet up.

Person 1: Shall we meet up?
Person 2: Yes
Person 1: Option A or Option B?

Or even

Person 1: Shall we meet up?
Person 2: Option A or Option B?
Person 1: I prefer this option

xpost once more thunderously OTM - meeting people from the internet hasn't quite lost its stigma, which is a shame - obviously you can't guarantee animal attraction online, which sometimes happens IRL within one glance, but you can guarantee a helluva lot else

Yeah, meet ASAP if you think you might have some interest, imo, but in a public place and pref not somewhere that is your "usual", so if there's any kind of bad-date embarrassment etc or the opposite, you have sex in the bathroom and get caught, you don't have to live it down. Also, DO NOT PRE-LOAD THE MEETING WITH ALL THAT OMG I RLY LIKE YOU DO U LIKE ME? stuff. Just a suggestion. You can both say "no" as soon as you walk in the door, if you want.

it's all pretty random...i had a date a few weeks ago from guardian's dating site and it went really well, like really well by any possible standard you could have. then no reply when i mailed her after...i think even when you go on a date there's always the chance you're just one item on the conveyor belt. i'm sure i've done this as well...

one of my friends who did OKC dating for awhile would often have the first date be playing chess at a cafe or park.

ahhhhhhh but that's 'dating' qua dating - the american-style merry-go-round where you have 5 on the go at once and it's all very casual and whoops you accidentally slept with one does that mean you're a thing now no it means you have another date

cannae be fucked with that rigmarole

btw when has a first date ever led to bathroom sex in a public establishment

that is an awesome first date idea sarahel!!

Oh yes, of course, you're right, I forgot. THE INTERNET IS FULL OF CREEPY DANGEROUS PEOPLE.

Which is not what I meant at all. Actually, the idea of dating someone that I hadn't known in RL for a while worries me, but like I said, I have almost no experience with this and my life situation is almost diametrically opposed to yours. (My first date was a college classmate; we'd been in the same class for a few weeks. I met my husband in massage school; we were about halfway through a six-month class.)

it made me wish i knew how to play chess.

also - the friend in question ended up getting together with a friend she's known for a while, and now they are married

xxp Oh, is that an American thing? I thought it was a "smart adults who realize they don't have to fall in 'love' with every person, every time" thing. Not that I've ever actually done it, mind you.

And I'm pretty sure you don't sleep with "one", I'm pretty sure you sleep with all of them until it either clearly isn't working out or someone becomes interesting enough to be worth not sleeping with anyone else.

love???

Over here it's regarded as a very American way to date, to have several people on a dating roster at once. Yeah, it's smart to not commit to anything until you're sure about someone, but I don't want to have to juggle several people at once, and I don't really want to do conventional dinner-dating

and no I do not fall in 'love' with everyone I sleep with, my 2009 would have been even worse if I had

like I say I am extremely tolerant and I approve of sexual freedom but personally sleeping with various people at once is a mental hurdle I find it hard to leap - maybe this will change, maybe it won't

you need a large bed for that to be really comfortable, i would guess?

I am being purposefully flippant b/c I get the whole "that is so American" thing all the freaking time and you know, I was never trying to be on Sex and the City or anything, fucking A I was just trying to get a date in this damn city and be happy with another person, and after a while you see that there are rules for not ending up in pieces every. time. and one of those rules is It Would Be Better If You Didn't Like Anyone Too Much, Especially Right at the Start.

having options like that IS a good way to avoid being hurt, definitely.

do British people only have one friend that they hang out with?

no I have several friends but we do not explore the carnal mysteries together iirc

you need a large bed for that to be really comfortable, i would guess?

Three or four people can be perfectly comfortable on a queen-sized bed, and three people can do OK on a couch.

you don't remember?

or was it so much of a mystery you're not sure if you "did it" or not?

Yeah, I was going to bring that up. (I was nowhere near the area at the time, I swear.)

that was an xp to LJ

Yeah the "date" concept confuses me too. Ive used it on a few of the threads here but only out of ease of explanation. Aussies dont do "dates". We hang out with people and sometimes the sexing happens. Pretty laid back imo.

Well its how things work for me anyway. This whole strict "meet off dating site" crap isnt doing it for me at all. Ive had far more success just talking to people on forums or livejournal or IRC or whatevs and then meeting em. Obviously gonna work if its a local and interest-specific forum too!

ALso, I'm a big old flirt. That helps alarmingly well.

Aussies dont do "dates". We hang out with people and sometimes the sexing happens. Pretty laid back imo.

that's pretty much how it is for me and my friends, for the most part.

pretty laid back

xpost to K - I also want the clarity over meeting up. Also on wanting to meet up within 3 or 4 messages back and forth.

Americans invented the date, IIRC.

(Actually, I was under the impression that the traditional one-on-one date was a rarity nowadays.)

I find the American Way fun and helpful in the way Laurel describes right up until you meet someone you really like, at which point there's this excruciating uncertainty for a while about how many other people they might feel they have the right to have on the go, and the horrific 'are we exclusive' conversation I whined about extensively upthread.

^^ this

god i hate meeting people i really like.

I don't really care if you call it a "date" or if you call it "hanging out" or "let's go to the pub for a drink and a chat and maybe dinner if we're getting along nicely" - but I *do* care whether you ask "I dunno, maybe would you like to hang out, like, some time or maybe not..." or if you ask "Hi, would you like to go to the pub? I can do tomorrow or Friday night, whichever is easiest for you?"

The latter will get you a response from me. The former, I will probably just ignore the email as I can't work out if it's even an invitation or not.

well, you can always assert yourself and take it as an invitation, right?

Not if I already tried asking in the first place. Basically, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm willing to be assertive to a point, but if it's all me, asking all the questions, doing all the arranging, really, this is not a good sign of something that is gonna work out. For me.

I've spent my whole life trying to be accomodating for what boyfriends and dates wanted. It's my time to be selfish. I'm not in a hurry to be In A Relationship any more, I am willing to wait for what I want. Not have to push or corral or herd cats to get something that sort of might maybe be OK, I guess.

so basically, you want to be pursued, and for *once* to have the dude do the metaphorical heavy lifting?

All this over-thinking and (near) game playing and (unstated) expectations and rules are what puts me off the whole thing. It's such a bullshit head fuck.

Karen, you would really write someone off for some tiny nuance of wording? That seems rather drastic. Who knows what their actual thinking was behind writing as they did - it might be what you're thinking they're thinking, but it so easily might not. (For example, they might be deliberately trying not to appear too keen/desperate, or might be trying to be particularly accomodating and think that this is the way to go about it, or maybe they're not thinking so much about it at all on a semantic level and just wrote and that's how it happened to come out). It just seems to me that you're reading too much into something that might not have anything like such significance.

No, Sarahel, I want, for once, to pursue, and have the guy turn around and go "oh, you're pursuing me. How nice. Yes, please, let's do this!"

And Krakow, it's not a tiny nuance of wording, it's about a pattern of actions, and effort. And about how you view the world.

Anyway, this is all a bit moot now. I have just had a correspondance that, well... I don't often talk in these kinds of terms, but I have the feeling that I've just met my match, in more ways than one. Now I'm going to shut up so I don't jinx this. I think I have to go for a walk.

ITLL NEVER HAPPEN

nah, godspeed :D

It probably won't happen.

I am probably just using the smooth surface of internet communications to look into an imagined mirror of what I think I want. But jesus christ, what a mirror. o_0

hey sometimes our projections are met with an equally impressive reality - happened to me last time around, can certainly happen to you this time around - just hope the guy doesn't have to bugger off within a few days

the trick with projections is to look at what is being projected rationally - if there's ANY cognitive dissonance between the projection and what the other person is revealing, you're possibly misguiding yourself. if not, have fun!

For all my arguementativeness and disagreement, I wish you the greatest luck and subsequent joy.