Just when you thought it was safe - OK CUPID PART 3: The Return of the WOO!

that was a badly-formed innuendo, sorry everyone

i got it

did you also understand my innuendo

what else was there to get?

need to not go on this drunk and message people i subsequently realise i don't like...

Hadrian VIII, I meant to say at the time when you posted, but I'm really very sorry to hear what happened to you there. How are things now, a couple of weeks on? I hope that you are okay.

Dear men of OKC:

A quiz.

If you have exchanged a couple of emails with a woman who subsequently stops answering your emails, do you:

1) Think that perhaps she's met someone else on the site she's hit it off with better
2) Look back through your last email and realise that you dropped a clanger of a sexist joke at someone who not only self identifies as a feminist, but specifically states she is not interested in people who have that kind of sense of humour
3) Just continue to bombard them with "hey, where are you?" messages until she actually starts to think you're a bit crepey?

I am beginning to realise that Block button is there for a reason.

Heh. I get where yr coming from there k. And I've been the same - someone's weirded out on me so I'll just stop talking.

.. til it occured to me that I hate it when guys do that to me, cos I dont know why.

So now I'm thinking maybe it might be at least polite to say "sorry this isnt working out" or something to them.

Thing is, yeah, I can understand the wanting to know the reason why (I've certainly been ... confused/disappointed when someone's abruptly stopped talking to me) but the problem is, telling someone a reason why, when you've already made up your mind you want no more contact, is really just giving them an excuse to prolong the contact and go all "but... but... but..."

I guess I should just send a brief "I'm sorry but this isn't going to work out" without an explanation, and block him if he tries to contact me again.

But it's just like... ARGH. I could NOT be in a relationship with someone that clingy & dogged (not to mention not being able to take a social clue) to start with.

You missed option 4 Karen:

4) Think that one is a disgusting saddo loser and that of course such a great, or even half decent, girl would never even want to know you, let alone be with you, and that she's realised this and so never wants to speak to you again. Cry self to sleep. Alone.

I think it really quite rude and it is incredibly frustrating, confusing, depressing and irritating when you are on the receiving end.

Nobody but a disgusting savage would walk off in the middle of a conversation in real life, so why should it be okay to do so anywhere else?

in mitigation, OKC is a really unnatural and strange realm of conversation and any such behaviour is much more excusable there

what was the joke?

I think that if someone insults you or makes you feel threatened or uncomfortable, it is perfectly reasonable to walk off mid-conversation, in real life or otherwise.

Email conversations, especially on a dating site, are completely different. If I am boring someone, I would not expect them to carry on a conversation, especially if it had not been going on for very long, or on a very deep level. This has happened several times to me, the first time it happens, it's a tiny disappointment, but after a few go-rounds, you get used to it.

Given the sheer volume of people on the site and the number of conversations that people have engaged with me (and also the type of short emails I've sent off on spec) it would actually be rude to expect a reply to each and every one of them.

otm, especially from a female perspective - have heard from every woman I've met on the site that they get, what, 10 emails a day pretty much? it's a lot.

Ha ha, no, obviously I am not super OKC playah, I don't get 10 emails a day, but certainly more than I could adequately answer, and still maintain a dayjob and a life. Especially considering how many people don't even seem to read one's profile at all, just look at the pictures and send off some completely inappropriate email. I suspect many of them are form emails, which just get swiftly deleted. Like, my profile is pretty detailed. If you can't find *something* in that whole mess to ask me about, you are really not trying very hard.

OK, my "I am annoyed by OKC communications..." gripe is, when you write a detailed email with quite a bit of discussion in it, hoping that it will trigger discussion from the other person, and you get 2 lines in reply. Especially if they only answer the one or two direct questions you asked, and do not even ask you any in return. That's one of those "OK, I don't have any *way* of replying to this, so I'm not going to now" things that I take as, the other person is just ending the conversation for you.

Is it possible they're just busy, and think sending a quick reply is better than sending a more detailed and responsive reply later. Maybe not.

x-post to something you said upthread.

Like, what difference would it make to someone in their late 30s if their partner were in the mid 40s or late 40s?

I think it does matter to some people--they don't want more than a 5 year or so age gap, rather than a ten year one.

Yeah, that's also OTM - generally when I send an email (or, when I did send emails) the emails contain(ed) plenty of reference to the information on their profile, and to receive responses where nothing about my profile was remarked upon often came across as disheartening (unless the response was a particularly enticing or witty one-liner regarding something in my email - there's no hard and fast rule for such etiquette, although it's usually preferable to at least essay some connection with personality rather than 'messager' - the latter is essentially a solipsistic enterprise)

Anyway, I don't send emails these days, I wait. I know that for OKC to work, people have to send emails in the first place, but I sent far too many to people I'd never really connect with, and felt uneasy with my own imposition upon them, before figuring that hey I don't really need OKC, and I might as well keep it open for if anyone great finds my profile and recognises game (as recently happened) but that casting around for potential love-interest online ultimately leaves me feeling a little hollow.

That's probably really hypocritical - but I've been the other kind of guy.

(xpost)

this just sounds worse than trying to meet people irl

joined this over the weekend. One of the profiles that popped up:

My Self-Summary
Only simple things and simple people are able 2 be summarized - a.k.a. - condensed - EASY 2 understand. Call it what U like - im not the one:)

*

***

***

**

**************

****

FYI - i DON't discriminate - but I am NOT - nor have i EVER been - Mentally, Physically, or Spiritually attracted 2 White MEN. - JUST like a gay person, i was BORN the way i am - it WASN'T a choice I made along the way (like MOST)

i LIKE what i LIKE - it IS what it IS - & thats the ONLY explanation i have 2 offer.

So, Please do the math & lets NOT waste each others time AND key strokes in vain

(Really tho, i'm starting 2 cramp up on here)

I am AMAZING!, 2 GOOD 2 B true, and oh' so Lonely:(
What I’m doing with my life
Right now? . . . Wishin i was somebodies Baby :(
I’m really good at
whatEVER i want 2 B.

*

Reading people.....

*

Making people laugh! see ---> :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

*

*

Creating Beauty . . . .

*

****

*****

(

****

* Sizing chumps up - thats what!!!

*

*
~hop-scotch~
The first things people usually notice about me
You'd have 2 ask the people.
My favorite books, movies, music, and food
ANY of the above that: Educate - Stimulate - Entertain - Inspire - Amuse - Soothe . . . . .. . ME:)

*

*

*

*** POOTIE TANG (Love u Pootie:)
The six things I could never do without
List my top 6 WEAKNESSES - for the world to read?!?

( - INSERT KNIFE HERE - ) *i'm good - NO THANK YOU*
I spend a lot of time thinking about
....thangz....
...the craziness of the world & its inhabitants. . . . . .
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . .
LOVE, TRUE LOVE. . . . EVIL . . .
. . . . .. . . .. . .. . . ..
Why & WHEN "good" men suddenly became extinct - My "BIG BANG THEORY" on the topic (Id share a bit of it with you except id hate to blow your mind - thats all)
On a typical Friday night I am
...Imagining ALL the happiness & good times that await me on Friday nights of the future.
. . .

Ive been resting up for them . . . - REALLY WELL!
The most private thing I’m willing to admit
. . . . i -

- i . . .

.
. . . . i forgot what a MAN feels like.
I’m looking for
Straight guys only
Ages 28-38
Near me
Who are single
For long-term dating, short-term dating, casual sex
You should message me if
i make U feel "fuNNy" - if i bring an unexpected smile to your face:) - if the thought of you & i makes you think, "Damn - WE look GOOD together!!!"

don't fucking do that kingfish

1) Think that perhaps she's met someone else on the site she's hit it off with better
2) Look back through your last email and realise that you dropped a clanger of a sexist joke at someone who not only self identifies as a feminist, but specifically states she is not interested in people who have that kind of sense of humour

Both of these plus several others, mostly involving raking one's personality over the hot coals of regret and self doubt.

OK, my "I am annoyed by OKC communications..." gripe is, when you write a detailed email with quite a bit of discussion in it, hoping that it will trigger discussion from the other person, and you get 2 lines in reply. Especially if they only answer the one or two direct questions you asked, and do not even ask you any in return. That's one of those "OK, I don't have any *way* of replying to this, so I'm not going to now" things that I take as, the other person is just ending the conversation for you.

― cymose corymb (Karen D. Tregaskin), Monday, September 13, 2010 1:04 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

only move here is to try and meet them at that level. short response with maybe one good question to prompt their response.

x-post Yeah, fair enough, all of these things. But what you don't do, is email them over and over until you have completely fucked them off.

Anyway, I dunno, it's like... the first email, sure, keep it short and simple because you can fire off three of them for every response you get. But if someone asks you questions, ask questions back? Some guys, honestly, it feels like you're interviewing them, like you keep having to come up with questions to ask them, but there's never any give and take.

(OK, I don't want to feel the opposite - like *I'm* being interviewed. To that, I'm just like "OK, stop, please tell me something about yourself?")

yeah that's happened to me, I take it as them not being interested...sort of, or not being interesting, sort of. but if i am still finding myself interested i would do what bnw says, reply with short emails too...see if you can coax out a more interesting discussion.

its one of those things that will find its own level. its kind of the price you pay for having a way to meet people so easily, that the connection can be dropped just as easily.

I guess with the guy it just happened with, it shows I wasn't that interested to start with, that I can't be bothered to ask him more questions.

The person I'm saddest that conversation petered out with was actually Pye Guy but I guess the lesson learned there is "don't be a facetious dick yourself" :-(

this just sounds worse than trying to meet people irl

god, yeah. i paid attention to this for a few months - which is to say, i downloaded the iphone app and sent a few messages - but was exhausted by the experience very very quickly.

as LJ says, in order to be in any way worth responding to you have to really go to quite a lot of effort to demonstrate that you are interested in them based on what you have read in their profile. then, in the same breath, you have to justify why you are worth their while and should not be casually discarded like the rest. the first contact is a sales pitch, essentially, so you're somewhat screwed if you're not a salesman.

even then, if they do respond receptively, before you've actually met in person, every email is an oppportunity for them to kick the communication to curb.

that all this can be drawn out over weeks, if not longer - and even then there are absolutely no guarantees that you will fancy each other if anything ever does materialise irl - just makes the process even more arduous and who these days really does have the time?

I agree that it's kind of exhausting, but you really don't have to do it all the time. And try to keep the exhausting bits to a minimum. Like first email, send something really short, one or two lines, just to see if the account is active, really. All you want is to show some flicker of interest and show them you have read their profile and invite them to read yours.

Even if your first email isn't brilliant, having a good profile will generally do the trick. If she writes back, then send a longer email and share something about yourself and ask her something about her.

Don't let conversations go longer than 3 exchanges (from each of you) without suggesting meeting up. Any longer than that, you've moved into penpals and you risk having too much expectation when you meet.

Kate completely OTM, that last paragraph especially. Boy can I not emphasise that enough.

N1ck, I'd say you're overdoing the cynicism a little there. You don't have to be a salesman and you shouldn't live in fear of the conversation ending - if it ends then there was never going to be much of a connection! Just be courteous and intelligent about it and let life wind as it will. But yeah, if it's got positive vibes, take it OFF OKC asap.

I think I sound more cynical and, reading back, despairing than I actually am/was. To tell teh truth I just got bored very very quickly and really couldn't be bothered to invest the time or energy (as little as that arguably might be) the experience seemed to demand.

Maybe if I hadn't met someone irl - who has now taken temporary custody of my sofa so I guess it's going well - I'd have persisted with this but as it goes...

It needn't take up much time and energy if you find someone you can quickly prioritise and then meet + get to know naturally - if you're constantly testing the waters with three or four 'hopefuls' THEN you're in the bad place that I may have been in for much of last year :/

Anyway, well done finding someone who prefers your sofa to your bed ;)

disagree about the 3 messages thing, lots of people are not that familiar with meeting people from online, could easily weird out somebody who is nice but feeling a bit cautious by that...i met someone at xmas after about 3 months of long messages. had 2/3 good dates then it fizzled, but the length of contact was a good thing imo.

Three months of long messages to get to two or three dates? Christ, that, I do *not* have the patience for.

I just don't understand the idea of living in a world where meeting someone off the internet is a weird thing. (But then again, I have spent over 15 years meeting people off the internet.)

I guess I just don't have the time for long email correspondences any more. Or rather, if I want long email correspondences, I can get them from lots of different types of places. The only reason I can see to join a dating site is to meet people in the flesh. I spend enough of my damn life online, I don't want to "date" there as well.

i didn't even know if i would meet her......felt it was better to just chat as felt normal, in other cases i agree it is good to arrange a date quickly.

Amen to that last point Karen.

I.e. "The only reason I can see to join a dating site is to meet people in the flesh. I spend enough of my damn life online, I don't want to "date" there as well."

Above, my proto-rant was not about not replying to initial messages (which I see as totally valid), but rather at suddenly stopping replying in a conversation.

If you've been actually scared or threatened etc. then that's a different matter, but I think that's rare.

I know that OKC is not the same as real life, so maybe my comparison to walking away from a face-to-face conversation doesn't hold that much water, but I still maintain that it is rude to just stop replying to someone when you've been properly messaging back and forth without giving some kind of goodbye or other closure, and perhaps even a reason.

Sometimes even the mere act of suggesting a meet up will give an indication of how keen they (or indeed, you) are.

Like, there's a big difference (to me at least) between someone going "yeah, I guess depending on where you work we could maybe meet up at lunchtime or something..." and "yeah, great. I can do tomorrow night or Saturday if you prefer?"

And also if you're vacillating yourself on whether it's a conversation you want to continue or not, asking yourself "do I want to meet this person?" is a good way of getting a gut reaction.

I suppose it is, really, an endless case of whittling down because, like, there's thousands of people on that site, and you can't possibly date them all. I kinda have to go on gut reactions with romance-related things because whenever I've overthunk it, I end up talking myself out of what I really want and into something bad.

What's the difference to you between those two sentences? I don't see one.

I just don't understand the idea of living in a world where meeting someone off the internet is a weird thing.

It isn't any weirder than replying to old-fashioned personals ads, but I dunno - it feels contrived? It feels more blatantly transactional?

Don't let conversations go longer than 3 exchanges (from each of you) without suggesting meeting up. Any longer than that, you've moved into penpals and you risk having too much expectation when you meet.

This sounds like a recipe for disaster, possibly even a recipe for personal danger.

There's a big difference! x-post to Krakow.

The first is vague, non-committal, implies that it does not really matter to the person if you meet or not, it's a maybe at best.

The second is a definite yes, followed by concrete suggestions, this person not only wants to meet you, but has actually suggested that they have thought through a variety of options with meeting you in mind. In addition, suggesting meeting "tomorrow" shows that they are keen, excited, but an alternate suggestion in the future suggests that they do not presume to monopolise your time, but rather suggests two equally prioritised options.

Option 1 puts all of the organising and deciding and even worse, arranging on the person you are asking, which kind of negates the point of asking at all. Don't be vague. Be specific, but offer a choice, especially if you want the person to agree to go out with you, because "would you like to do option A, or option B" provides a clear-cut way of accepting or refusing politely. The former, they pick an option, the latter, they politely say that neither is convenient. On the rare occasion that the person is actually busy on both dates, it provides them with the clear way of expressing a definite interest, which would be to say "I can't do A or B, but would you be able to do C?" Also, psychologically, people are much more likely to pick one of two clearly presented options than have to invent their own option. It's just easier.

Clear options, clear answers, less confusion.

Granted, this is the sort of thing that works for me. Other women on this thread may offer differing opinions? I'd be interested to hear if other women hate the faff and like the clearness as much as I do.

I took 'suggest meeting up' to be a slightly non-committal statement BUT a sincere one that you'd be prepared to meet, not an actual organisation of date time location etc - that should come naturally (but there's never harm in asking, and you should do so pretty much as soon as you're both agreed to meet! Say, within five or six emails)

So basically a bit from both of Kate's camps. When it comes to suggesting a date, you have GOT to be decisive, and precise.

As I say, I prefer to meet sooner, but not necessarily in a datey way, more in a pleasant lunch-or-walk way

This sounds like a recipe for disaster, possibly even a recipe for personal danger.

Oh yes, of course, you're right, I forgot. THE INTERNET IS FULL OF CREEPY DANGEROUS PEOPLE.

Unlike bars, or anywhere else you're likely to meet single people.

You always do Safety First and exchange phone numbers, and leave the phone number, and a description of where you are going, with someone who agrees to check in on you post-date. It's actually much safer than meeting some dude from a bar because they have left huge chunks of their personal information across the web during the course of their setting up a profile and corresponding with you.

I have only ever really met one serious psycho through the internet, and trust me, that wasn't on a dating site.

The asking for date comes after you have agreed to meet up.

Person 1: Shall we meet up?
Person 2: Yes
Person 1: Option A or Option B?

Or even

Person 1: Shall we meet up?
Person 2: Option A or Option B?
Person 1: I prefer this option

xpost once more thunderously OTM - meeting people from the internet hasn't quite lost its stigma, which is a shame - obviously you can't guarantee animal attraction online, which sometimes happens IRL within one glance, but you can guarantee a helluva lot else