A question about climate change/global warming.

Can someone redirect me to the thread about the Bali climate talks, if it exists?

So the talks yielded an agreement on a framework to work on updating the existing framework on climate change in two years. For the next two years, there will be no binding restraints on carbon emissions in the U.S. and China, among others.

In other words, a complete failure.

The talks were notable for the loud booing and hissing directed at the United States delegates during the last day for its "refusal to agree to language requiring rich countries to provide measurable technical assistance and money to poorer countries that take meaningful steps." (link) Props to the delegate in Papua New Guinea who said “We seek your leadership, but if for some reason you are not willing to lead, leave it to the rest of us. Please, get out of the way.”

Wow, I forgot about the massive response to the last post I made there.

So, over the past week or so, I've come to the realization that all of these dudes I'm living with this summer all think climate change is a hoax. Or, rather, they acknowledge but the planet is warming, but then they go into the "the world has been going through cycles of cold and warm for the past million years, before humans even existed" argument. Also, these dudes have made fun of me for playing Zelda: Phantom Hourglass on my DS, they said watching Lost was "gay", although under further questioning they revealed that they had never seen it before. This is hell.

Anyway, I'm just going to post on here whenever one of them says something hilarious about global warming. One of them asked me, "So...seriously, do you really think there's going to be some sort of global warming CRISIS? LIke in within the next 100 years?", and then when I mentioned something about receding minimum summer arctic iceshelf levels they countered with news about glaciers in Greenland getting much bigger.

Also, another has had his mouth open like a goat for the past two weeks. I want to go over there and press his jaw up a little so his teeth clack together.

Also, someone directed me to this earlier as evidence:

http://www.petitionproject.org/gwdatabase/GW_Article/GWReview_OISM150.pdf

Apart from the global warming they seem pretty spot on.

lol Z S you might be young and healthy and dating a cutie but you live with MORONS I win

I am old and healthy and dating a cutie and live with a GENIUS

Only two more months. This is only temporary, this is only temporary...

You can make it. Although I think you should kill them.

I feel you dude, I lived in barracks with all manner of jackasses for, like, four months or so

then we got to pick our own roommates and I never dealt with such as you speak of ever again

don't worry ZS, at the end of the movie you get to save their lives and you all become sunshine happy friends together.

and
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Oregon_Institute_of_Science_and_Medicine

more extensively
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/10/oregon-institute-of-science-and-malarkey/

Morons are underrated.

It's alright, the sunspots have gone and saved us all!
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/06/the-sunspot-mys.html

Uhm I think we should avoid liberal guilt here, or the kind of fear mongering thats been placed on us. People don't want to hear it because they live in a society where market incentives and likewise bullshit as well as 'TURNING OFF A FUCKING LIGHTBULB' etc are used in place of actual long term solutions so they choose to ignore it and submit to an agentic state but I don't think that people are ignorant or apathetic more overwhelmed.
The kind of excesses brought about by capitalism and the state's support of that system are the real culprits. We can't just be promoting lifestylism and individualist action while the real root and cause carries on, anarchism...WOAH-too far?
Anyway my point is; its not really our fault but we should get together, organise etc and tackle the real problem.

major lulz at the sourcewatch link. The first thing I did when they showed me the global warming debunking "report" was go to the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine homepage, where the authors of the paper work. I said, "Why is there a link to an article on how to survive a nuclear war on this page?", a question they ignored before redirecting me to a cool graph showing that the world had, astonishingly, seen above-average temperatures in the past.

www.350.org

I should post this here, too:

http://globalmicrowave.orgfree.com/satellites.htm

Grist posted the entire "How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic" series in a point-by-point response to the denial talking points
http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

Doesn't cover the "political" argument my last boss had - of course the science will point towards global warming! That's where all the money is! They get paid to say this shit! - I guess trying to draw parallels between the global warming "industry" and big pharma.

Of course he never said who was providing all this money, or why it was in their best interests to prove global warming if combating it is going to be so disasterous for the global economy.

(other that that it is a great resource)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7472532.stm

http://www.earthpolicy.org/Updates/2008/Update69.htm
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/4081
http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/8/389/2008/acp-8-389-2008.pdf
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e780d216-5fd5-11dc-b0fe-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2043724,00.html
http://www.unctad.org/en/docs/ditcted20067_en.pdf
http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature_Stories/Ethanol_fuel_presents_a_cornundrum.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/business/worldbusiness/19palmoil.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin
http://www.cfr.org/publication/14293/oecd.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/science/earth/08wbiofuels.html?hp
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/05/biofuels.food

My grandfather, long retired from Exxon, where he worked his whole career as a research chemist (figuring out ways to make the industry more environmentally friendly, btw), also trots out the "natural long-term cycles of warming & cooling" defense when climate change comes up, though he also hedges his bets by saying that in his opinion, petroleum should never have been used as a fuel anyway, but rather reserved for its useful chemical properties.

first the salmon, now the oysters

Overheard this afternoon from a bagger to a cashier at, of all places to hear this, Whole Foods. This is verbatim as near as I can remember:

"There was a program on the other night that looked at all the temperatures, at least as far back as they can, and the whole carbon footprint and global warming thing, if you look at it scientifically, it's really kind of a hoax."

I so wanted to turn to him and say, "Yeah, I think I saw that program. Was it called 'Things James Inhofe Pulled Out Of His Lying Ass?'" Bagger was at least 60, too.

what is the age at which because it's on the teevee, it's true? or is age not the operative factor?

Grim

Fuck.

pee-drinking manfish, it's your time to shine

http://images.digitalmedianet.com/2006/Week_33/61rboolg/story/waterworld-1.jpg

What is really up for grabs at the moment though is the exact extent of climate change. Some scary-ass scenarios to ponder here.

http://freakytrigger.co.uk/slugoftime-podcast/2008/04/a-bite-of-stars-a-slug-of-time-and-thou-episode-2/

Humanity reduced to a few survivors eking out a living in polar refuges. Most of life on Earth has been snuffed out, as temperatures rise higher than for hundreds of millions of years.

Mark Lynas

Interesting? Click here to explore further

Terry Rapson: We found something extraordinary... extraordinary and disturbing, that is. You remember saying in New Delhi about how melting of the polar ice can disrupt the North Atlantic current?

Jack Hall: Yes.

Terry Rapson: Well... I think it's happening.

Comments section to a WashPo article that refutes George Will

The range of stupidity displayed in these comments is nothing new:

ThisIsReality wrote:
What weasels these warmists are. This character is seriously trying to maintain that global cooling wasn't being loudly predicted in the 1970's? And the warmists have no, none, zip, doodah explanation for why the climate has cooled recently. Hah! The warmists are to the climate what Geithner is to the treasury.

devesh_f10 wrote:
Dear kenonwenu: You are right, increasing CO2 concentration in the atmosphere does make it absorb more heat. But did you know that despite all the hoopla, human activity accounts for less than 15% of the green house gases released into the atmosphere?
The rest is actually released naturally, as has been going on for millions of years.
Now one might argue that we are tipping the marginal balance of green-house gases, but really, it appears unlikely given the small share we add.

GaryEMasters wrote:
As a retired science librarian with an earned PhD, I take an expanded view and wonder if warming will be good or bad. Yes, we can make the Earth warmer. But few will ask if there is an ice age in our immediate future. If so, we may well want it warmer. If not, we may want to cool the Earth. But few debate that position and if it is brought up, one is called a "denier."

I do not deny we can make the climate warmer. I ask if it is good or bad.

LOL at GaryEMasters, if the whole thing wasn't so fucking frightening.

After reading Matt Taibbi's article about the global financial debacle, in which he makes the point that the vast VAST majority of the public is completely unable to even begin to understand the mechanisms that led to the crisis, I wonder if the same point can't be made about climate change. Math and science comprehension has declined in the U.S. over the last several decades, and as a result we're looking forward to a century where the "debate" often begins with addressing basic educational deficiencies.

• Unfamiliarity with statistical concepts

• No grasp on systems thinking

• No grasp on feedback loops

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/content/images/2006/10/19/dmu_head_in_hands_315x420.jpghttp://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/content/images/2006/10/19/dmu_head_in_hands_315x420.jpghttp://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/content/images/2006/10/19/dmu_head_in_hands_315x420.jpg

If you're into scary scenarios, there was a great CBC radio documentary series by Gwynne Dyer about military scenario planning for climate change outcomes. Hint, don't worry about rising seas, worry about starving due to rainfall shifts:

http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/climate-wars/index.html

If you're into REALLY scary scenarios, consider one of the positive feedback mechanisms (seabed methane hydrate releases):

http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/go/dorritie/

If you're into scary scenarios, there was a great CBC radio documentary series by Gwynne Dyer about military scenario planning for climate change outcomes. Hint, don't worry about rising seas, worry about starving due to rainfall shifts

Not to mention the fossil fuel reserves in the Arctic that are becoming available due to melting. The U.S., Russia, Canada and others are already sparring with each other for exploration/drilling rights. Can't WAIT to see how that works out.

the ukcp09 is out today
http://ukcp09.defra.gov.uk/

article on the beeb
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8107014.stm

for anyone interested

local Burger King franchise tells us what's what

http://www.memphisflyer.com/SingAllKinds/archives/2009/05/27/burger-king-calls-global-warming-baloney

Burge king calls globval warming baloney, immediately places said baloney between two buns and sells for $6

OMG the comments in that link.

WOW! That's great! I am going to stop by BK on my way home from work and buy me a big fat juicy burger to show my support!

About time some people recognize AGW for what it REALLY is!

Good for BK! The truth is slowly coming out. We need more of this

I have not eaten at a Burger King in almost 10 years (been on a health kick) - but I WILL CERTAINLY BUY ONE WHOPPER A DAY FOR THE NEXT MONTH just to show my support. Why is it that liberals can make some assanine statement and get praised for their stand but every time a conservative makes a statement he has to get crucified? Thanks for being bold and being AMERICAN, Burger King. By American, I mean you use your freedom of speech. Thanks! I almost thought they had succeeded in taking that one away from us! OK - gotta run now - going out to buy my Whopper!