Defend the Indefensible: films in which gorgeous, independent, "edgy" women have nothing better to do than break uptight whiny squares out of their bubbles

films in which three gorgeous, independent, "edgy" ghosts have nothing better to do than break uptight whiny squares out of their bubbles

http://triangleartsandentertainment.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Scrooge-Christmas-Past.jpg

fine, catwoman's a femme fatale - but she's also a gorgeous, independent, "edgy" (dead) woman trying to break uptight grouchy batman out of his joyless crimefighter bubble. fits. sort of.

Batman is way cool. Guess you have never been inside of Wayne HQ.

And this is fine as one moment in the story, but it's repeated in larger scale across their entire relationship,

screenwriting = the art of taking the most unusual/exciting/scary/interesting/funny moment of a person's life and stretching it out for 90 minutes.

the woman is initiating and forcing through everything.

I guess I don't see the problem with that. Let's assume that in most romantic stories these days there's someone who is out of the other person's league (or seems to be at first) and there's someone who is the initiator, because watching two equals who just sort of casually, organically fall together is boring and non-dramatic. (There's also, of course the two people who were destined to be together but are kept apart by external forces, but let's ignore that for now). Then there are four possible scenarios:

1. dream man pursues average woman
2. dream woman pursues average man
3. average man pursues dream woman
4. average woman pursues dream man

If the man pursuing the woman is supposed to be the "traditional" form of romance, then can't 2 & 4 be seen as the more feminist approaches? You might say that #4 is more feminist because she's aiming high. But that would be a fantasy for women. Only 2&3 would probably appeal to male romantic fantasies. So maybe a movie where the dorky guy actively pursues the gorgeous, independent woman would be a better role model for the average guy. It could provide a sort of moral instruction for nerds to better themselves. But it would also perpetuate the idea that men should always be the initiators and aggressors in a relationship. And it also perpetuates the idea that a man needs to change himself to appeal to some ideal of what women want. So I think it's easy to see why the story of a dream woman pursuing an average guy is a popular approach.

I guess undramatic is a word. also, I should learn how to do the actual quote thingy.

batman is way cool. but he is not a happy camper. and wayne enterprises, for whatever reasons, have failed to return my many letters of inquiry.

I'd agree with wk that, in the world of romantic comedies or dramas, the MPDG does not rank as particularly egregious. There's something equally problematic with the plethora of films they market for women specifically (whether they be female-centric 27 Dresses or the male-centric Ghosts of Girlfriends Past). I wonder how much the MPDG bugs people more because it often turns up in films that are attempting to be indie or arty or in some way credible (Garden State, et al).

http://www.cinecon.com/frontimages/2172-dropdeadfred.jpg
I wouldn't have thought so until I saw it, but this movie would be much better if rik mayall was the normal one and phoebe cates was jumping off the walls.

nermal is a boy

a lot of people don't realize that

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2010/10/forgotten_gem_into_the_night.html

amazing to discover not 2 months after this very thread, the new Kermode blog piece is all about the 3 movies i was blethering on about above, moreover the good man prefers Into The Night to After Hours and Something Wild too. must watch it again soon and see if it stands up. maybe Kermode lurks on ILX.

Age difference aside, The Graduate would seem to fit perfectly here. (Although Ben never really does emerge from his bubble.)

I guess Ruth Gordon doesn't qualify as gorgeous in "harold and maude"

http://upcomingdiscs.com/ecs_covers/how-to-steal-a-million-large.jpg

Films in which gorgeous, independent, "edgy" crooks have nothing better to do than break uptight whiny museums out of their baubles.

I liked the TV show Flying Blind with Teo Leoni as the mpdg probably way more than it deserved. Apparently it only lasted one season.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103415/

I think about 60% of Woody Allen's catalog could fit here.

you think wrong.

manic depressive jazz guy?

the difference in the romantic credibility factor between play it again sam and sideways is negligible at best

No mention of Pretty Woman yet, why is this?

i don't know, but if i find out heads will roll.

I think I met one of these in real life but she just turned out to be kind of annoying*

*not in the truth bomb sense

yeah they always turn out to be horrible irl ime

^^^ probably taking it a little far

Generally agree with wk and contenderizer.

See, I'm not sure these scenarios are that unrealistic or demeaning to the women. The guys do have issues but they're not hopeless failures or anything (and are generally attractive guys). The women are attractive but are not uber-successful or worldly or anything. It's a fantasy but these kinds of people and these kinds of situations happen all the time ime. (If anything, 'bad boy' fantasies are probably more questionable.) Scott Pilgrim is a musician who does cool gigs and stuff; Ramona Flowers is a delivery girl who seems to have some baggage of her own in any case. Tom and Summer work at the same place; Afaict, Tom is better-educated than he needs to be for the job and has been there longer. In both cases, the woman were new in the environment, didn't seem to have a major novel or small business on the go, and were probably glad for the company.

I mean, Scott's probably a way cooler date than some douchebag who'd hit on you at Sneaky Dee's.

manic pixie dream girl: the play

http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/Silver-Linings-Playbook-Bradley-Cooper-Jennifer-Lawrence.jpg

How many examples are there of "Manic Pixie Dream Guy" in film? Maybe that should be a separate thread.

http://i-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/ol-images/kitchen/uploads/clarence.jpg

the cat from outer space is a classic feline example too

― k¸ (darraghmac), Wednesday, September 8, 2010 1:42 PM (2 years ago)

thread should've ended here imo

Xpost lol

How many examples are there of "Manic Pixie Dream Guy" in film? Maybe that should be a separate thread.

― Cunga, Wednesday, January 23, 2013 1:16 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Elias Koteas in Crash

loooooool

Mathieu Amalric in Kings and Queens
Ethan Hawke in the early nineties.

'Big'?

Yes, thanks.

great call on Big

Also "Elf", in the same way as "Big"...

And, hey, while we're at it: "It's a wonderful life"

Hawke was never a pixie. Grungy.

I think there's a broader device of "somewhat 2-d character whose sole role is to teach the main character a lesson/break the main character out of a rut," but too often this device is fulfilled either by a woman, a black person, an old man, a homeless guy, etc.

Waltz in django unchained

I suggested Big because a stuffy yuppy with a stuffy boyfriend meets a man/boy, makes her jump on a trampoline etc., leading her to change.

Trying to think of other Tom Hanks films. I don't think 'Joe Vs the Volcano' counts. Splash?

obi wan.

gandalf

Santa or Santa's son in at least three made-for-TV Christmas movies that I can't remember the name of.

Steve Guttenberg was in one of them.

I've seen a lot of v bad Christmas movies.

Drop Dead Fred