Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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See Owen's penalty at Fratton Park for belief, lacking in.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

They're a conundrum, all right. One keeps hearing of shambolic, aimless performances (though not at the back where they're famously tight) of unendurable negativity and then one reads the Monday papers' stats and they've had 37 shots on goal or something in a 1-1.

I liked Ian St John's claim that Houll the Ghoull is transforming the Anfield faithful into 'zombies', traipsing across a mist-shrouded Stanley Park.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

See Owen's penalty at Fratton Park for belief, lacking in.

That's nine misses in nineteen attempts! Who else would have him?

Everton - the Grand Old Relegation Struggle again. We can't even comfort ourselves with the notion that it's us and a dozen others because a gap has developed in the last couple of weeks and we're on the wrong end of it. I'm going to see them on Saturday - my first trip to Goodison in a decade - and hopefully it'll be our first league win of 2004. If not, I don't see us keeping the likes of Leeds, Wolves and Leicester at bay with any ease - none of them are in freefall, they're still snaffling up points here and there.

We seem to miss a similar proportion of chances to Liverpool, we just create a third as many. And we're leaky at the back in a way not hinted at by 02-03. This season we possession-dominate 0-1 defeats; last season we pinched even-steven games with late wonder-strikes. Gravesen is the most frustrating player to watch - occasionally inspired and inspiring, he misdirects more passes in 90 minutes than Paul Bracewell did in his whole career.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve Watson was a big factor last season for your lot wasn't he? and this season he's having a mare.

What I've seen of Cisse he's been great, but always with the backing of Kapo while playing for Auxerre, maybe Kewell will provide similar service if he ever decides to start being a decent player again.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think Everton will be drawn into a relegation fight. There are so many potential goals in that squad (Campbell, Ferguson (penalties and brave headers only), Radzinski, Rooney etc). David Unsworth isn't half the player he used to be, mind. And it wasn't much to begin with.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve Watson was a big factor last season for your lot wasn't he? and this season he's having a mare.

I'm not sure about that - he only played a dozen or so games last campaign but started this season in great form (the hat-trick against Leeds being the highlight) and then got injured. But, yes, terribly ineffective since his return. We've missed a fit Kevin Campbell this year but we're going to have to get used to that - it's twilight time for KC.

Ha, just checked the stats on the website and Gravesen makes 77% of his passes, making him EFC's Mr Accuracy. Sorry, Thom!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah I was getting the start of this season mixed up with last, oops.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Houll the Ghoull!

Mike - I hope you're taking a camera!

(Not Titi.)

― the roonfox, Tuesday, 24 February 2004 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked Ian St John's claim that Houll the Ghoull is transforming the Anfield faithful into 'zombies', traipsing across a mist-shrouded Stanley Park.

Did I hear him say at the weekend that he had lost his job hosting hospitality suites because of being critical of Houllier last year?

― Mooro (Mooro), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

BBC: Liverpool 3-0 Portsmouth

Liverpool revived their bid for a Champions League spot with a convincing victory over Portsmouth. A stunning volley from Dietmar Hamann and two goals from Michael Owen lifted the Reds into fifth place, a point adrift of Charlton.

Owen tucked away his first from six yards before sealing a welcome return to form with a second-half header.

Emile Heskey might have made it four late on when he headed against a post, while Portsmouth offered little.

Defeat left Portsmouth in the bottom three, still two points adrift of safety.

― the liverfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

At the weekend, Everton 1-0 Portsmouth and Soton 2-0 Liverpool made a poor contrast for Reds fans.

But have Liverpool now turned another corner?

And has Merseyside sent Portsmouth down?

― the roonfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

we may have sent them down, we may not have turned the corner, let's wait and see what happens against Wolves (who are in a wee bit of form)

I read today someone espousing Heskey for Centre back - this smacks of twisted genius

― chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

This battle for 4th place might now be over if Newcastle hadn't repeatedly conceded last-gasp equalisers/winners in recent weeks. As much as the dim prospect of L'pool finishing out of the European places altogether tickles me, I suspect it'll come down to that last match with Newc at Anfield, May 15th with the Reds only needing a draw for CL 04-05 and Charlton a distant sixth.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

And sixth won't be good enough for Europe this year. Only one UEFA cup spot (for fifth). First division clubs cup run to blame.

Chris, I wouldn't say losing 4-0 at home to Villa constitutes form for Wolves.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

good point, I forgot about that one. Let's hope that's the start of a slide and not a blip.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

And sixth won't be good enough for Europe this year.

Unless Boro have one hell of a run in. And no one wants that.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Liverpool have turned a corner. I put Jamie Carragher in my Fantasy Football team yesterday in expectation of this. 5 points hurrah. It was mainly cause they had an extra game before the end of the game month and they were all against crappy teams, i have to admit.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Carragher is one of my favourite Liverpool players, he's very good, and should maybe be playing centre midfield (although Hamann has resurrected himself lately)

― chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

He's not the most creative player though, is he? (last night's cross notwithstanding)

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

his passing is vastly under-rated, very rarely gives the ball away, and uis a good hard player - exactly what Liverpool needs in the middle

― chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Carragher is one of those solid, uninspiring players that all teams need and Liverpool have too many of. He's never going to appear on Showboating is he?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the points per game totals of the teams from 4th to 8th look a bit low, so I am expecting someone to claim 4th with a really outstanding run from now until the end of the season. I guess Liverpool and Newcastle are favourites for this, but last night and a good win against Wolves might give Liverpool exactly the launchpad into such a run that they need.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the points per game totals of the teams from 4th to 8th look a bit low, so I am expecting someone to claim 4th with a really outstanding run from now until the end of the season.

I can't work out if this makes sense or not. I am dumb.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean that I would expect a team to finish 4th with a much higher ratio than is currently the case, so I expect someone to pull away with great form more than I expect other teams to drop off through poor form.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't that like thinking that if you've tossed five tails in a row you're more likely to get heads the next time?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess if by 'great form' you just mean 'form more like previous seasons'' then it isn't.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

N., the football commentator, is... plausible?

― the cupfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd love it if they had one pedantic middle-class know nothing amongst the studio pundits to quibble over faulty logic and poor grammar.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know what you're trying to say.

Are you positing yourself, or me, as the middle-class know-nothing?

I am middle-class but re. football I know something more than nothing.

― the cupfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

It's me, not you. I can't understand how you could have thought otherwise.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I see. re. faulty logic. You were indeed attacking that.

― the byrdfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

It is a bit like that, N, yes - but not quite, as those sorts of figures do provide a pretty decent guide generally, though obviously not always.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

Coming up:

Arsenal vs Liverpool

Everton vs Tottenham

TWO BIG MATCHES

CAN HOULLIER'S MEN STOP GUNNERS IN THEIR... TRACKSUITS?

― the roonfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The Reds, UEFA Cup exit aside, are definitely in some mean form right now - four Premiership games without conceding a goal, the most convincing they've looked all season. But *then* you remember who their last four games were against and the 89 minutes of toil vs Wolves and maybe it ain't all that. I expect Arsenal to recover their winning touch. EFC-Spurs I anticipate being the usual, strangely dissatisfying score draw.

Can someone tell me what's happened to the Southampton-Newcastle fixture? Bobby R made some reference to that now being NUFC's last game of the season, but surely there can't be games beyond 15/5?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Pool aren't really playing that well, one good game, they had European failure in between those 4 games aswell.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you mean Sir Bobby R

― the cupfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Pool aren't really playing that well, one good game, they had European failure in between those 4 games aswell.

Yes, but even the defeat vs Marseille was a reasonable performance until the bizarro red-card-penalty incident. Better than the home leg, I thought. I thought the 3-0 vs Pompey and 4-0 vs Blackburn were universally acclaimed in a way few winning L'pool performances have been this season. Or maybe that was just the media pendulum swinging back from the Houll Crisis position.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Owen has hit form just in time for a late charge at the end of the season though (and hopefully Euro2004 as well)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

It's good to see Jonesy talking Liverpool up and Ronan talking them down, both from opposing pessimistic positions.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

haha I have lost all faith.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I have never seen MJ talk them up quite so much, on reflection.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Incidentally Pinefox even I don't believe that Spurs Everton is a big game - it is utterly inconsequential. Especially when bearing in mind that both teams typically finish seasons with the same confidence, verve and steadyness as, well... Arsenal. Arf.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there an argument that, for all the silverware GH has brought into Anfield, Roy Evans (remember him?) actually got closer to that elusive Premiership title? If David James hadn't such a nightmare on Easter Monday '97 vs Man Utd, if Liverpool hadn't faltered at Coventry three days after that Game Of The Decade vs KK's Newcastle in '96...they'd have been right in the hunt at the death. Houllier's Liverpool always seem totally out of the race by about February.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

sigh

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

GH's are wrong in the death at the hunt.

― the liverfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Evans had us playing good football too, we were 5 points clear at Christmas that year and looked fantastic.

Maybe the long spell of patience should have been kept for Roy, I don't know. GH has to go this summer anyway, regardless of the position the team finishes in.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

My dearest scouse-related dream is for the Liverpool board to appoint another manager to be Joint Manager alongside Gerard. He wouldn't be in a position to complain, of course, because it's a completely reasonable thing to do, non?

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

My dearest scouse-related dream is for the Liverpool board to appoint another manager to be Joint Manager alongside Gerard.

Oh, my heart skips at the notion of "joint manager".

Liverpool under Evanshoullier, Aug-Nov 1998:

P13, W4, D4, L5 - 12th in Prem, out of league cup at home to Spurs.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously any dip in Liverpool's form would be an entirely unwelcome side-effect of my plan.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I am almost ashamed - but no, really just sad - to have to say that I cannot clearly remember that League Cup victory.

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

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