xxxp - Responsibility for/to what?
― milo z, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:03 (fifteen years ago) link
that being said, in this particular case making out with g/f while buildings blow up to rapturous strains of popular angst-rock is clearly meant to be a moment of redemption/catharsis and I think that that particular image is total adolescent nihilism wish-fulfillment and as such is stupid and not particularly deep or interesting.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:04 (fifteen years ago) link
(x-post!)
to not complain when ppl read your text and say "wtf are you doing, no thanks" basically
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:05 (fifteen years ago) link
my point exactly.
Shakey, the redemption is in defeating his (evil) alter-ego (right at the moment of Tyler's triumph) and finding love. The survivor was trying to stop the explosions.
― milo z, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:05 (fifteen years ago) link
shakey movies are about adolescent nihilism wish-fulfillment deal with it
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:06 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah you better start learning to like it!
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:09 (fifteen years ago) link
Then it's a meaningless statement. There are politics embedded in all imagery, not just falling buildings - so what actually counts is the way the 'politics' are both intended and read.
right, I agree. deeznuts seemed to be taking the tack that there are no politics and its all just a bunch of projection etc.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:10 (fifteen years ago) link
great revolutionary movies: antonia's line, topsy turvy
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:10 (fifteen years ago) link
lolz I am not 16 anymore and you won't be 16 forever, deeznuts. learn to live with it.
no, my tack is that there are politics but its when people (or directors) start emphasizing these politics that movies go wrong
good one shakey, very original
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:12 (fifteen years ago) link
sorry, Shakey, I guess I was misreading your argument (not paying attention to deeznuts)
― milo z, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:12 (fifteen years ago) link
Fight Club's climax ("buildings being blow up to the pixies") is certainly meant to be SOME kind of grandiose statement. And the statement isn't entirely apolitical. Fincher seems more concerned with cinematic/emotional impact than with rhetorical/intellectual coherence, but that doesn't mean that the film isn't communicating a message and a point of view.
Fight Club rails hard against the emptiness of modern life, condemns (while coflictedly celebrating) the masculine cult of the asshole self, and ultimately seems to embrace a revolutionary nihilism as the only escape. But I think it's a mistake to take the film too literally. Those concluding scenes speak more personally than politically, and the apocalyptic destruction has more symbolic than literal significance. It's a love story, at heart. The buildings falling down stand in, half jokingly, for the fireworks we might expect to see behind such an embrace.
By destroying Tyler (and the world), our hero is really just destroying that his own emotional defenses, finally accepting himself as he is and in the process, succumbing to "true love". Cheezy, yeah, but I think that's what's really going on. And the touchy/feely core tends to negate whatever narrowly political read we might try to graft onto the film. It has political aspects, but if you read it as a tract, you're missing most of the point.
― contenderizer, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:14 (fifteen years ago) link
do you guys politically analyze james bond films to the same degree you do this one? do you guys think fincher was aiming for great cinema or a starting a new oct 1917? i mean wtf xp
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:14 (fifteen years ago) link
I worked on 'The Game', thought it shallow and annoying even when it was still just the script and generally think Fincher is talented when it comes to cinematography but usually films scripts that somehow lack any real 'heft' to them and isn't very deft with his actors.
― Michael White, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:18 (fifteen years ago) link
(not paying attention to deeznuts)
words to live by
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:18 (fifteen years ago) link
contenderizer, that is exactly right, and you stated it better than i was going to manage.
― BLACK BEYONCE, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link
it doesn't take any heavy analysis to see "politics" coming out of a movie, least of all james bond, christ. are you paying attention to what is happening on the screen? do you read a newspaper? that's all it takes, enjoy.
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:20 (fifteen years ago) link
problem is people like you & goole seem to sincerely think the message of the climactic scene of fight club is 'viewers, blow up buildings like terrists did/will' & not 'damn this shit looks awesome when set to 'where is my mind' xp
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:20 (fifteen years ago) link
"do you guys politically analyze james bond films to the same degree you do this one?"
Of course we do. Don't you?
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:21 (fifteen years ago) link
that isn't at all what i've said, hope you've had fun
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:22 (fifteen years ago) link
Eva Green is the EU James Bond is the resistant Commonwealth...
― milo z, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:22 (fifteen years ago) link
no, i dont, thank god xp to alex
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:22 (fifteen years ago) link
Bond wasn't the best thing to reach for here, DN.
― contenderizer, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:23 (fifteen years ago) link
It's okay I knew that already. Enjoy your life!
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:23 (fifteen years ago) link
cold war vintage spy movies, are there POLITICS in there? lol u guys are paranoid!!
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:24 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah guys there's no politics in James Bond roflz
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:24 (fifteen years ago) link
when the fuck did i say there werent politics in JB movies
goole are you seriously some kind of soviet spy sent here from the past
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:25 (fifteen years ago) link
you are either a moron or running an argumentative shell game to waste my afternoon
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Got it, there are politics in JB movies, but deeznuts doesn't think about or want to talk about them!
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:26 (fifteen years ago) link
wait so something's only political if it accomplishes something? this is a very novel definition of "political"
by "novel" I mean "wrong"
― J0hn D., Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:26 (fifteen years ago) link
keep the lolz coming guys
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:27 (fifteen years ago) link
i hate this thread because it is making me remember my 3 semesters of intro to lit crit back when i was a lol english major
― BLACK BEYONCE, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:28 (fifteen years ago) link
I mean this is what you said:
ok, but realistically, the supposed politics of a movie dont mean jack shit
...unless you're discussing the politics of a movie
― J0hn D., Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:29 (fifteen years ago) link
"but they won't change anything!" who fucking cares?
like those terrible moments where someone would raise their hands and make the trenchant point that a communist analysis couldn't be right for this text because communism wasn't even INVENTED yet, DO YOU SEE?
― BLACK BEYONCE, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:30 (fifteen years ago) link
if you're a sociopath tho you can just eye the person making that point and know that they're an easy mark
― J0hn D., Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:31 (fifteen years ago) link
3 semesters??
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:31 (fifteen years ago) link
"but wait, joseph conrad went to africa so theres no way he could possibly be racist!"
― max, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:33 (fifteen years ago) link
-- Alex in SF, Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:26 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
-- J0hn D.
thank you, thank you
this is my point exactly: why the fuck does the 'SERIOUS BUSINESS/(politics)' of it matter if it DOESNT ACTUALLY MEAN SHIT
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:33 (fifteen years ago) link
oh yes Carleton college was v v into the lit crit at that point. i should correct to say 3 trimesters, because we were still on some nutjob olde masters version of what a proper college should do. assholes. xpost
― BLACK BEYONCE, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:34 (fifteen years ago) link
why would you discuss the meaningless politics of a movie guy xp
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:35 (fifteen years ago) link
how could you not watch a movie about young men exiting life, becoming violent, and blowing shit up, and not be reminded of a thing or two out there in real life. seriously this takes no heavy lifting at all.
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:36 (fifteen years ago) link
yes. it strikes me that it would take more effort to maintain a "this has no resonance to real life whatsoever" stance than the reverse!
― ryan, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Why would you discuss the meaninglessness of discussing the meaninglessness of the politics of a movie?
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:38 (fifteen years ago) link
we're through the looking glass here people
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:38 (fifteen years ago) link
alex/goole: where did fight club influence jack shit, other than a few dumbasses on this planet starting fight clubs, & were is your evidence for this
goole et al where is the evidence that fight club influenced mcveigh/osama/atta etc & if it isnt around then wtf are you talking about except some bizzarro hypothetical bullshit that doesnt actually exist
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:42 (fifteen years ago) link
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT INFLUENCE
― goole, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:43 (fifteen years ago) link
or at least i'm not. and since i can read, i don't think anyone else is either.
"Why would you discuss the meaninglessness of discussing the meaninglessness of the politics of a movie?"
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 22:44 (fifteen years ago) link