Rome - New HBO show

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um good thing i never got around to my valedictory post abt this, cos i thought it ended at ep 10.

anyway yeah i love this show, one of the only shows ever that i've "followed" as it was on. but it's carnivale caliber, not soporanos or deadwood or 6 ft under caliber. the bits i've liked are the comments on either earlier caesars (brutus being a feeb, very unshakespearean) or the slightly clumsy riffs on current politix ("i've never actually tortured anyone...we have specialists").

i was daydreaming the other day about an "adventures of posca" spinoff, boo hoo.

― geoff (gcannon), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 04:30 (twenty years ago)

There are no other grounds for this show to succeed on. You are doing something akin to complaining that a novel doesn't rhyme.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 04:31 (twenty years ago)

posca was a pimp :'(

― lol xbox is hueg (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 07:29 (twenty years ago)

So as long as the TV show's concept is groovy, nothing else matters?

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

yeah, esp in comparison to the other (active) hbo dramas - sopranos, deadwood, the wire - the machinations and manipulations here were a bit clumsy soap opera

British made TV show in not being as good as American made TV show non-shockah!

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

Should we expect narrative to be subject to modern gender ideology, even when dealing with characters who, in pre-CE and as noble Roman ladies, would have been quite constrained in their field of action?

We may accuse Suetonius of sexism by the light of our times, but underneath the contempt he has for people like Livia, lies perhaps, the reality that intrigue was one of the only avenues of influence open to women in a virile culture like that of the Romans.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)

So as long as the TV show's concept is groovy, nothing else matters?

I'm not arguing that's the only way a tv show could work; I'm arguing that it's the only thing in Rome that really works, and that everything else only works enough to let the concepts shine, and doesn't work so well that it obscures the shiny concepts.

I never felt Vorenus and Pullo were believable characters having believable conversations, but I did generally feel like they were believable concepts bringing up interesting or fun concepts. The whole "Pullo tells Vorenus about the clitoris" scene comes off as unbelievable -- dude's been in Caesar's army for ten years, which is depicted as being filled with blunt men who talk about sex and the body constantly, surely it would have come up before -- but as far as a conversation between someone "proper" and someone "earthy", in a time before widespread sex ed, it's a pretty clever concept.

...

Roman custom doesn't dictate that Vorenus has to marry Niobe's sister now, does it?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 17:48 (twenty years ago)

If the show had succeeded as, say, blount describes the Sopranos as succeeding, then I wouldn't have been interested, just like I have no interest in the Sopranos. - chris you wouldn't've been interested if the 'powerplays and backstabbin' (which is now what all hbo dramas are about now) hadn't been handled clumsily or at least better than say general hospital level? the closest non-arli$$ example i can think of in hbo's history is the later years of oz when it got ott soapy - i still loved oz but it ended up in that state while rome is starting out there (also even then oz's tangled web was incredibly more intricate than rome's - chess vs. checkers). i can definitely understand 'what i want most from tv is trash trash trash', but it seems like even on that score rome is outperformed by the oc or desperate housewives (unless what you're looking for really is 'trash dressed up to look like smart middlebrow drama', or you're thinking 'but this has titties' in which case fair point).

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

I don't know Chris, but I think Jewish custom would have.

I'm going to miss Indira Varma.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

This may sound cheesy, but she was the best TV wife since Suzanne Pleshette on the original Bob Newhart.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

no love for clair huxtable? :(

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

I never really got into that show, but she was cute.

I felt pretty bad when Niobe died, but I think they had to do it. Lucius Vorenus is going to be feeling really guilty in future episodes about his professional screwup in letting Caesar get killed, which would eventually grew tiresome, so they had to mirror that with the more resonant private screwup/loss.

I'm on the side of those who thought the catty intrigue ended up a little on the soap opera side- a few extra arched eyebrows and instead of Ancient Rome, we would have been in Viejo Mexico. Contrast that with Caesar's power plays, which I pretty much bought hook, line and sinker. Usually I have my radar up and think "haha, that actor thinks he can puff up his chest and glint his eye and pontificate and I'm going to believe he is a powerful man. I'm sorry, but life isn't like that, baby" but in this case the writers and especially the actor really pulled it off.

I thought Vorenus/Pullo were great characters, an excellent good cop/bad cop team of one thinking/controlling/repressed guy and one lusty/impulsive/acting out guy. The grumpy straight arrow that is Lucius Vorenus is a type that is near and dear to my heart.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

yeah the guy who played caesar was really great, good death scene too

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

Ciaran Hinds has been good in almost everything I've seen him in.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

He always reminds me of John Cale.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

chris you wouldn't've been interested if the 'powerplays and backstabbin' (which is now what all hbo dramas are about now) hadn't been handled clumsily or at least better than say general hospital level?

No, that sort of thing I generally find sad and tedious (which means I've found it somewhat difficult to get excited about Rome the actual historical empire, which was after all all about that sort of shenanigans). If it's done in the service of a cleverly turned out plot (P.G. Wodehouse/"Scott Tenerman Must Die" style) then I'll put up with it.

In general hour-long tv shows haven't interested me.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

i've forgotten now how servillia knew vorenus and the real father of niobe's baby. ???? and what happened to niobe's lover? for some reason I had a hard time getting minor characters like him straight.

anyway, pretty good, I was hoping ceaser would be around for longer though. bring on cleopatra I say.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

i've forgotten now how servillia knew vorenus and the real father of niobe's baby.
When she lezzed up with Octavian's sister, who had made him tell her a secret (hoping to discover Caesar's seizures, instead getting baby-daddy drama) right before fucking his little brains out.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

no Rome, no Entourage, no Deadwood, no 6FU - there's absolutely nothing worth watching on HBO now. Is there another season of the Wire coming?

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:05 (twenty years ago)

As it stands, Deadwood has been pushed back from March to June 2006 on HBO. Sopranos is still coming back in March. Entourage should be coming back with Deadwood in June. The Wire Season 4 doesn't start until September, and (assuming there is a new series) Rome in 2007.

― Gukbe (lokar), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:09 (twenty years ago)

there's some new show with chloe sevigny, jeanne tripplehorn, and bill paxton but i don't think it's a drama.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

it's called "Big Love", and it reeks of Dramedy. It's about mormons, so it must be vaguely amusing.

― Gukbe (lokar), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:25 (twenty years ago)

Does Sevigny blow anybody?

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:28 (twenty years ago)

hey if they have the Mac song as the theme ima watch it.

― geoff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:36 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

UK viewers, any chance of a précis of what happened in last week's episode (that is, penultimate episode of Series 1)? Christmas and stupid BBC scheduling of the repeat meant I missed it.

Comedy replies are OK as long as I get a serious one too. Thanks in advance.

― zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:25 (twenty years ago)

try this zeb:

http://www.hbo.com/rome/episode/season1/episode10.html

― mason storm (mason storm), Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:38 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

Imperial landing strips ahoy, starting Sunday.

― milo z (mlp), Friday, 12 January 2007 01:40 (nineteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

So this has got to be the first time Belgium has ever been cited as an extreme of violence and savagery, right?

― Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy. (Austin, Still), Monday, 29 January 2007 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

Luc Sante to thread

― The Redd And The Blecch (Ken L), Monday, 29 January 2007 14:41 (nineteen years ago)

I dunno, the whole thing was a little too Raging Bull last night for my taste.

― The Redd And The Blecch (Ken L), Monday, 29 January 2007 14:41 (nineteen years ago)

I was positive that Antony was going to make a force Cicero into a toast after whizzing on the plant (and likely big C's cup.)

― Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy. (Austin, Still), Monday, 29 January 2007 17:21 (nineteen years ago)

so have we seen the last of Max Pirkis?

this series is really chugging along. i wish it had more seasons to come, as this series really should have ended with Phillipa, and the third would be all about the triumvirate falling apart, ending with the Cleopatra fiasco.

i don't want to see cicero killed.

― The Ultimate Conclusion (lokar), Monday, 29 January 2007 17:31 (nineteen years ago)

imdb says he has one more episode coming up. Pirkis/Octavian I mean.

― Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy. (Austin, Still), Monday, 29 January 2007 17:39 (nineteen years ago)

Here's the proof that HBO doesn't give a shit about Rome: they are showing a new episode tomorrow.

― Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy. (Austin, Still), Sunday, 4 February 2007 06:06 (nineteen years ago)

Great episode, but they could just dispense with Atia's doings and follow Pullo around for all I care.

― milo z (mlp), Monday, 5 February 2007 07:04 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I'm not so keen on Atia v Servilla at the moment either. Nice to see Timon get some screen time/development I guess.

Phillipi is still two episodes off. Hope next week is more than just build up, though presumably a helluvalot has to happen.

Not so sure about Simon Woods. More Posca and Cicero, please.

― The Ultimate Conclusion (lokar), Monday, 5 February 2007 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

I don't understand why they thought they had to change actors for Octavian. The new guy doesn't look much older for one, and for another, I don't get the idea that all that much time has passed. Unless he's supposed to be a kagemusha style body double or some wierd shit like that.

Hell yeah more Posca and Cicero!

― Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy. (Austin, Still), Monday, 5 February 2007 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

****SPOILER****
OMG they killed Cicero!

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Thursday, 22 February 2007 04:06 (nineteen years ago)

Why the hell did Cicero not have bodyguards? That was the most casual political assasination ever .

― Bill Magill, Thursday, 22 February 2007 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

Perhaps he wanted to die a martyr to the Republic.

― Michael White, Thursday, 22 February 2007 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

that last episode was so good, and so bloody! cicero's neck omg!

also, killing rich merchants to pay the army? whoa
i've been thinking and talking a lot lately about (the failed/ongoing project of) democracy, and this show keeps coming up. interesting.

― rrrobyn, Thursday, 22 February 2007 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

The proto-fascism of the late republic/early empire has always fascinated. Read Monesquieu's 'The Spirit of Laws', rrobyn.

― Michael White, Thursday, 22 February 2007 17:01 (nineteen years ago)

thanks!
(and thanks internet - http://www.constitution.org/cm/sol-02.htm)
a friend of mine actually brought this up when the first season was on, but i forgot about it. totally interesting!

― rrrobyn, Thursday, 22 February 2007 17:10 (nineteen years ago)

I think Phillipi explains why this series is only ten episodes.

― Gukbe, Thursday, 22 February 2007 18:38 (nineteen years ago)

I'm two weeks behind, so I can't contribute much (except my undying love of Titus Pullo, and some confusion re: all the "Attia can't act" stuff), but where is the love for the Town Crier (or whatever he actually's called)!?!?! I live for his oratorial semaphore!

― David R., Friday, 23 February 2007 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

On IMDB they call him the News Reader.

I enjoyed the super goriness of the most recent episode.

― accentmonkey, Friday, 23 February 2007 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

i didn't realize my love for titus pullo was so strong until this season, but damn...
and lookit him, aw

http://www.serialseries.ch/mm/Rome_stevenson.jpg

― rrrobyn, Friday, 23 February 2007 16:18 (nineteen years ago)

I had a dream one night that I was running away from him. He wasn't lovely then, let me tell you.

― accentmonkey, Friday, 23 February 2007 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

SPOILERS ABOUND!

Titus Pullo and Sayid (Lost) are pretty much dreamy.
This last episode of Rome bothered me because...I am supposed to believe that Cicero is killed by Pullo and the last words he wrote were made into a hat for Vorenus' kids?
let's put history into a neatly wrapped up newspaper!
It's typical in television - and it's weird that we know they (HBO) cancelled the series. But, please.
Does everything have to be a link to another story?

Brutus' death was amazing.
The last stand was amazing.
The warriors going forth on command was amazing.
And i liked Vorenus and the kids being happy in the country.
I don't like it when it gets contrived.

― aimurchie, Friday, 23 February 2007 16:40 (nineteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

Wish they hadn't killed Eirenne like they did.

I'm digging the Aventine stuff, which surprises me slightly.

and OMG, Posca married!

I liked Octavian's "oh, just so ya know" talk to Livia re: beating you from time to time for sexual pleasure.

― Gukbe, Monday, 12 March 2007 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

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