suicide

abb just mailed your ilx email...

abbott hope you can feel better, you are a great person it seems to me.

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Saturday, August 7, 2010 5:49 AM

Thank you, ailsa - my message was mainly an attempt to bring some levity and maybe, optimistically, even a smile at that "ass hair salon" picture which I had rather far fetchedly tried to semi-relevantly link to abbott's message and words. (She said she felt like an ass, sometimes people who feel bad pamper themselves by getting their hair did, ass hair salon picture, done. That's how my brain cell works.) The stern reprimand afterwards only reminded me that my kind of childish thinking usually only annoys grown ups, which I tend to forget. Thanks for the consolation, though.

You'd think that this realisation would be enough to stay away from serious threads like this one, but I think that if someone like me, who has more than enough reasons to be depressed and suicidal if I thought about it enough to let it all become a problem (no close friends at all, no idea how to get out more, almost 40 year old vir(that movie with steve carroll), looking like frank black from the pixies, embarrassing health issues I probably should get looked at but won't, etc etc) can miraculously not have a problem and be at peace with his life then there's hope for everyone. Although that may not immediately be clear from my typical "just posting something i thought was funny to a thread I thought was relevant" posting style.

But anyway. More than tmi than I like to divulge.

yeah, had no idea you were so old!

Abbott, I am a lazy poster and more of a lurker really, but your posts are one of the main reasons I'm here.

Stan dont feel bad about what you posted, I thought it was sweet :/

I think we all know Stan meant well as he's a good guy!

Ass Hair Salon made me lol...levity is good!

<3 u all

StanM, you aren't alone with your aloneness issue. I've never been in a long-term relationship.

I stopped having suicidal thoughts. I think that my decision to start some routines that will improve my life has made me happier in general even though I haven't started those routines yet

Deciding to start is a good start :) keep your chin up, Lorax!

^ otm

abbott: after my own recent ordeals, i wish that i had something more profound or insightful to say. but you made it through the day and you will make it through the night -- i hope that that can give you strength to go on. and that you take more strength from the outpouring of support from everyone on this thread -- such support has kept me going, and i hope it does the same for you.

StanM: I'm sorry if I caused you any pain. Your post just reminded me of the "Buck, up kiddo!" statements that clinically/subcliniclly depressed people have to put up with all of the time--as if a serious disease like depression is caused by a failure of willpower. Again, I know you didn't mean it that way, and I'm sorry.

Don't worry, no harm caused! thx!

xpost He meant well. But you are right. My mum keeps saying "Oh a talk with your dad will sort everything out!" or what about "It'll get better as you grow older." Uh no. It gets worse tbh. Nor does having a (wonderful) partner help. I was single and depressed and now I'm married... and depressed. I don't think kids nor husband can really drag you out of a depression.

I have to say: the (legal) drugs do work. It's better. Not gone AT ALL. But at least the suicidal thoughts are gone.

A major problem is that depression-as-in-having-a-bad-day and depression-the-chronic-illness share the same word in English. Add to that the fact that PTSD shares many of the same symptoms, and it's no wonder that many people get confused.

I don't think it's fair that "buck up kiddo" is said to depressed people, either. Depression is just there, you don't choose it. The person who says "buck up kiddo" is getting a power trip off of you. You have to rise to the challenge though or your situation might get worse.

What I mean is that if you get offended by someone saying that you might not have the strength to get better. Part of what might cripple you is you allowing yourself to be affected by what some power tripping jerk says to you.

A major problem is that depression-as-in-having-a-bad-day and depression-the-chronic-illness share the same word in English. Add to that the fact that PTSD shares many of the same symptoms, and it's no wonder that many people get confused.

^^^^^Grade A Truth Bomb there.

Also the conflation of depression-the-chronic-illness with the idea of "going through a rough patch" - and that some people are able to pull themselves out of a rough patch, so they feel like they can tell people with depression-the-chronic-illness "oh, why don't you just go out to the pub and go play some football and get some friends" like OOPS ::slaps self upside the head::" why did I never think of that?" level of fucking d'oh. (Sorry, yes, my usual saw that I like to carp about on ILX depression threads.)

Nath, just a word of warning about the legal drugs working - please be aware that this effect may be temporary. I had that experience, when I first when on SSRIs, that the reflex suicide urge just went away, like someone had just turned on a light. And that was the most amazing thing. However, this effect is not permanent. If you don't find a way of dealing with root issues, they do come back, often in such a slow and insidious way that you don't realise it's happening. (At this point, my experience is that doctors will say "oh, let's just jack the dosage up, then" - and that's when the weird-ass side effects of SSRIs and their pernicious addictive nature start to rear their ugly heads.)

While you have that clear head, work on the root causes, make changes in your lifestyle and your attitudes and whatever else it is that you can.

I have been treated for depression and I am wondering what "depression the chronic illness" is like. I am not disparaging the idea at all, I hope I do not offend, I am just wondering what the control factors are. Like are you determined to be "chronically depressed" if there are no other contributing factors (grief, economic uncertainty, substance abuse, family problems etc.) in your life?

I believe that chemical depression is possible but if you struggled with that wouldn't that automatically define you as not doomed and "miserable"? It would be a disability like having a bad knee.

I guess what I am asking is why are people so condemning and impatient and demanding of someone who might not have a particularly bad life but who just struggles with feeling "down" a lot.

Again I do not wish to offend, it just seems like society spends a lot of energy berating people for not being "happy" when there is no way someone can objectively define another person as "happy".

I don't know that I'm qualified to answer that, given that my official diagnosis is "bipolar" which is by its nature a chronic and cyclical illness. I think that chronic depression is kinda like that, but without the mitigating highs in between the lows. You can manage it, you can do thing to alleviate it, but it's like it's always there, lurking in the background, and maybe even little setbacks like another person would shrug off, they can tip you into a downward spiral that ends up in that dark place you can't climb out of. It's like you go to put your weight on your leg, knowing that you're trying to walk across an uneven pavement, and that leg just won't bear the weight, in the way that a healthy not-broken leg would.

Same with the mind.

I mean, my mum is full of theories about "patterns of negative thinking" and "reinforcing neural pathways" which sounds a bit like overly deterministic bullcrap to me (I'm mistrustful of American and its relentless focus on "positivity" all the time.) But the idea that if you have one episode of major depression, it does make you at risk for having more - it's almost like it's this automatic pattern of thinking, that once you start sliding down into it, it's not like a bad mood you can snap out of. It's this quicksandy thing that gets hold of you, and the more you struggle not to fall into it, the deeper you get.

Sorry, I'm sounding like a bad self help book. It's something that I only really can describe in metaphor.

I'm having a bit of a triggered kind of a day and it's like standing at the edge of a really dark lake that you can't see the other side of, but you know what lurks there, and you do not want to step into that water, but there's a really strong headwind and you're feeling a bit too weak to climb. Bah.

I think the difference between "going through a bad patch" and "chronic depression" is kinda like the difference between a sprained ankle and a broken leg.

Like, if you have a sprained ankle, it fucking HURTS to walk, but still, you actually can still walk, in fact, you really rather need to. If you have a broken leg, you physically can NOT walk and you will actually do yourself some serious damage if you try.

Obviously a clumsy metaphor but, you know, I have bad days, and I have depressions, you learn to tell the difference in yourself.

I agree with you on the relentless focus on something as undefinable as "positivity", when it's tossed at you by someone who faces completely different life circumstances it is an exercise of power and nothing more. All the more reason to be depressed.

Like when my brother was a kid he lost a good friend in a tragic incident and afterward was determined to have "adjustment problems". It was decided that the solution was for him to develop skills outside of school, get socially involved in the community. It was a good thing for him in the long run, but for years he played sports and was heavily involved in extracurricular activities where he had to listen to various male authority figures giving him this patter, guys who had no such mark on their development. How can people so glib and ignorant govern your life.

If people take responsibility for what is medically defined as an "illness" their relative "happiness" or attitude is no one else's business.

Bad patch = good food still tastes good, funny jokes still make you laugh, good company can cheer you up temporarily, you can point to fairly rational reasons why you feel like crap on a stick most of the time.

The disease (from which I have not yet in my life suffered) seems quite a bit worse.

the bad patch CAN lead to the disease ... esp. w/t good food, good friends, good jokes, etc.

Kate, you are right, that's what my doctor also suggested: after one month (in about two weeks now) I have to check in with him and talk about possible therapy. I should go back to my therapist, slap him in the face and say: "Thanks for ignoring my anxiety remarks." He basically just waved'em away. I'm not blaming him though, it's all up to me and me ignoring the warning signs yet again.

i thought that the only real thing missing from my life was my 'soul mate' and once (or if) i found them my life would be pretty much perfect. i DID find that person and he is actually perfect in every possible way... but i'm still me. yes, now i have this amazing supportive person who is there for me 24/7, which is fantastic. but depression/anxiety/mental disorders aren't cured by love. maybe alleviated a little, but def not cured. so in some ways i feel like it's worse, bc before you meet that person, you can hold onto that hope that a relationship will save you.

i don't if the broken leg metaphor is the best one - i think it's more like having a weakened immune system. The big difference is resilience - the ability to bounce back, or to shrug stuff off.

Your mileage may vary.

Weakened immune system doesn't work as a metaphor for me, because when I'm in manic phase, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BOTHERS ME AT ALL!!! but that doesn't mean that my mind is functioning normally.

Unipolar depression, though, may be different.

i thought that's what we were talking about? After reading about everyone else on here's experience w/SSRIs, I feel really fortunate that my negative side-effects are really minor: like reduced tolerance to the effects of alcohol and slower metabolism, which means i end up getting a decent amount of physical exercise.

OK, I will remove myself from the conversation as clearly I'm not qualified to talk about my experiences.

Yesterday I spent some time with a person who may have a learning disability. I feel guilty after being exposed to such a person because am I getting a psychological lift from having external problems not so great? Is it wrong to say to myself, well could be worse, I could have no arms or legs or be permanently blind and isn't that also a pitying condescending attitude? I guess depression isn't something you should think your way out of....which is funny because at least one counselor told me that my thinking was too negative.

OK, I will remove myself from the conversation as clearly I'm not qualified to talk about my experiences.

What was posted in this thread that led you to write that?

It's hard, and it's painful enough to talk about this stuff in public.

But when someone goes and tells you - when you have stated that you are talking about your illness and your experience of it - that your metaphor is not valid or helpful, and then tells you "oh, but we're talking about something else" when you stated that you were talking about something not entirely similar but related - it really does feel like being shut down and excluded and told to get out of the conversation.

I should not participate in ILX discussions of depression or suicide or mental illness. It is not helpful and it only ends with people upset and unhappy and feeling misunderstood.

OH, fuck it. Please remove my post and the one before it. I don't want another slapdown on ILX for being the crazy angry lady who can't explain herself. Again.

Geez Kate, of course you are qualified to talk about your experiences! I don't want to play thread police. I was just under the impression that we were discussing, as you put it, "unipolar depression" - but you can contribute in any way that you want - you can talk about bipolar disorder, or unicorns, or pizza or whatever. It's just a thread on ilx.

^^ okay, i did not mean that at all sarcastically - basically, this is just a form of conversation, and conversations shift in focus or derail or become a series of goofy jokes or puns IRL, so policing them just seems silly to me as long as they remain functional and productive conversations, which this is.

at the risk of derailing this thread, i just want to publicly thank everyone who came to my aid several months ago. i think -- i HOPE -- that things are seriously on the mend on my end (though i have no real promise that that is so). but things have gotten quite better since i originally was here, and i am so very grateful to everyone who reached out to me.

:)

(to tad, obv)

Yes, that's good to hear.

i've often thought about suicide and the hardest thing is working out how exactly to do it. i have no access to guns which is probably the easiest/swiftest method, jumping off a high building is too risky (not guaranteed to work and you might just end up an invalid), ditto overdose, drowning far too scary, hanging too morbid, slitting wrists too goth. and then there's the guilt over how it will affect your loved ones. if anyone is aware of a suicide technique that avoids any of the above issues, please let me know!

volcano

if you're thinking of methods to do it, then you're far gone enough to need some help. seriously.

i don't think there's a method that avoids affecting your loved ones.

I'm afraid we're mostly here to discourage ppl from ciding their sui instead of helping them find the best way to do it, r1o.

Or wait. I know the perfect method and I'll tell you in 2060.

Yeah, it's not a "C/D" kinda thread. There's got to be some kind of modicum of respect, methinks.

Call me names, but I've thought seriously about the same thing r10 just said, and that's been a real deterrent for me to killing myself.