I'm an alcoholic

webmailing you, but hang in there.

Doesn't a person drink because they feel bad about themselves? Maybe I am wrong, but I lived with two alcoholics and they stopped drinking when they stopped trying to be someone else. Cut the negative influence from your life and develop yourself.

people drink and are alcoholics for all kinds of different reasons.

Agreed, but u s steel's description accurately describes me back then.

hey table, I don't have any advice to give but I'm really impressed by your openness and your ability to face the problem. Alcoholism runs in my family, but so does stubborn pride and an inability to talk about things or ask for help (esp if it's something with guilt involved, like drinking when you shouldn't), and I've seen it cause a lot of sadness over the years. So kudos to you, and I wish you the best of luck.

― the dialectic of specs (c sharp major),

^ can only echo this and repeat my honest admiration for your strength in attempting this in such an open way right off the bat.

and though kate and i have been butting heads lately, that was a fantastic post from her.

And tough love only works in very specific circumstances and with certain types of people--it can backfire, horribly, if used indiscriminately. (Or for things other than addictions--I'm not going to get into how I think the whole tough love philosophy has been a corrosive influence on the US since it started in the early eighties. That really belongs in one of the US Politics threads.)

Both parents are alcoholics and I know too well what it does to people, so I'm glad you've decided to stop it (relatively) early on.

What worked for you to help you quit drinking last time? Seems to me that while whatever you did was good enough to work for a short while, there are deeper problems that maybe you didn't address.

Not knowing all of your circumstances (not that anyone needs to in a public forum), it is difficult to give advice. Sometimes people are in an intractable situation that isn't entirely their fault and probably won't quit drinking until they are free of it, as in my story about my relative CBS.

Going back to Kate's post upthread (which was good, Kate, you shouldn't worry about it) - the peer pressure stuff is largely internal. My social circle (which intersects with Ted's) revolves a lot around drinking and smoking pot. But there are people in that circle that don't drink and/or don't smoke pot that aren't not seen as "fun people". Obviously, if you don't feel like a fun person and are not having fun in a situation, then the other people are gonna pick up on that. But, for the most part, esp. if booze and weed are involved, the other people are not really gonna be focused on whether or not you're indulging yourself.

yeah, OTM sarahel there. i know plenty of people who don't drink but smoke, who don't smoke but drink, etc.

anyway, i'm gonna answer some questions:

- in terms of how i came to this conclusion, i've known for a while. probably about a year. but only recently have i been coming 'clean' with myself about it, and not just laughing it off as if it was some sort of joke. bicycle accidents are scary. not remembering how i got home is scary. not being able to fall asleep without some alcohol in me is scary. so... yeah.

- ilxor akm: thanks, i got your webmail, and it's good to know that AA stuff is mostly secular out here. i'll hit you up with an email later today.

- kate, yeah, what you describe is what i fear. at the same time, i've spent months not drinking at all, and i've still been able to function both socially and creatively. it's just that it's been awhile. i refuse to go back on SSRIs or anything like that because they made me feel dead inside. nonetheless, thanks for your advice and support.

- um, in terms of HOW i drink: i mostly drink beer and malt liquor, occasionally whiskey. when i say i need to drink in order to fall asleep at night, it's not that i drink all day. i need to drink about two beers right before i fall asleep in order to have any sort of fitful rest.

- the last time i cut back dramatically, i was aided by a few things: a good friend had just been checked into the first of many rehab stints, i had had a violent outburst towards a friend. for years, i didn't drink much at all. i did A LOT of LSD and smoked pot on the regs, which helped somewhat, as it made me find alcohol repulsive. it was really when i was unemployed and living in a college town a few years back that my drinking started in earnest again, and hasn't abated since, though i've moved and created a different life for myself out here.

- i don't feel bad about myself, and have no desire to be someone else. i wish i wasn't poor, but don't we all.

- in all honesty, neither myself nor my parents have resources to do an official rehab stint. i drank very little last night (about a 40 oz), slept pretty well, and woke up feeling great this morning. the BF and i talked last night and we're going to cut back DRAMATICALLY together. it'll be really hard, but i also think that we can do it.

to everyone: thanks so much for your support and advice. you people are truly wonderful, and i love you.

If you need to talk, tabes, I'm here.

xp - you know i'm around and you know i think you're an awesome guy

But Kate - you're totally right about the "whoo! let's keep going until we fall down" rush - I had that Thurs night (and it had been quite a while) - but then while I was sitting away from my friends, discreetly puking into a trash can, the appeal of that quickly evaporated. And I resolved, "Never again!" but of course I question the meaning of "never" - but it was a good check.

I can highly recommend this http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism/ which is also mentioned upthread. Quit drinking completely for 5 months last year just to see if i could, which was a big deal for someone who'd been hammering the booze pretty hard for the preceeding 5 years. Very frienly place it seemed while i was on it. Hope it works out.

I went to a really good rehab for addiction several years ago, but you had to have insurance for it. I wish people without insurance or sufficient coverage could get rehab like that. Only thing is you have to sit through interesting but depressing sessions with recovering heroin and cocaine addicts and then you feel guilty like you are spying on them.

Alcohol, you need to change your lifestyle. I used to spend too much time with the above people and other unnamed alcoholics and it dragged me down. That means changing your lifestyle and possibly your social circle, joining clubs or a gym or outdoors activity, taking a class etc.

much love and support to you, t3ddy <3

I've been to AA. It helped, I made it 9 mths and then...

But again, much suppo

So... yeah :'-(

In no way do I intend to hijack table's thread, or to frighten table once he sees this thread being bumped, hope he's doing great. But this thread seems most appropriate for something I just need to get off my chest. Emphasis on need, as opposed to want. I'm an ilx-regular but cannot bring myself to do this under my usual display name (please, no "guessing games" in here as to who I am, it's too serious an issue for that, I hope you will all respect that)

For nearly three years now, I have been drinking approximately two bottles of red wine a night. Sometimes it's a bit less, sometimes a bit more, but if I had to ballpark it, I'd say I average 1.5 bottles of red wine. Per night. Every single night.

Nearly three years. Ridiculous as it may sound, realising the sheer magnitute of how long that actually is only very recently struck me. A 1000 fucking days. And counting. Deep down I have known for a long time already that this is not good, but I didn't want to hear it, I suppose. Didn't want to acknowledge I had a problem. But I do.

Some random thoughts:
1) The "problem" is that I don't really get drunk anymore. Big surprise after this steady intake for so long huh? But getting drunk, and enduring the hangover the next day, would mean the body screaming out NO! THIS NO GOOD!. I've not had that for a loooong time. Which kind of made it less of a pressing issue, made it easier to dismiss I have a problem.
2) I function perfectly okay during the day. I have a job that carries a lot of responsibility, it asks a lot of me, and I deliver. My responsibility doesn't end with dealing with the outside world, it also means dealing with staff, people you see every day, being a superior. I'm basically the sole person responsible for a company that has a $2.5 million turnover per annum and has seven or eight people employed. And yet this massive intake of alcohol doesn't hinder me to do my job properly. Many a times I wish that it had, earlier...
3) I am not plagued or warned by any physical hindrance or health problems because of all this drinking. I am not gaining weight as people usually do when drinking a lot, I'm a thirty-something and am not experiencing any health issues. Yet.

Ofcourse any fool can reason that drinking two bottles of wine every night, for three years now, can't be healthy. It just can't. Right? Please tell me I am right in assuming this. For in a twisted way I miss having warning signs or alarm bells going off with regards to my health. But surely it can't be right. I do think that the lack of physical inconveniences contributed to me sticking my head in the sand for a long time. I am inclined that way, a bit, and it runs in the family; but that's all knowledge I secretly gathered after the fact, after I found myself in this position.

But sticking my head in the sand, ignoring or making light of it; I feel I can't do that, not anymore. It is the reason I am writing this and sending these bytes into cyberspace. I thought about doing this for a long time, had many a doubt, but the urge to just get this out on here is too strong. I suppose that's a good thing, acknowledging something isn't quite right?

I am afraid that I am damaging my health (which I obviously am), and noone in my close proximity has any idea about this. My family doesn't know, at work they have no idea, even my loving girlfriend knows nothing about this...

I don't know anymore. AA is out of the question, I am allergic to religion. Also, for shame. And I know how idiotic this may sound (but it illustrates the habituality of my drinking), but I am afraid of not drinking. I don't even know what other people drink at night. How do they get by? Tea? Water? I honestly can't even imagine what that's like, which makes me infinitely sad all the same.

If you made it this far you are as patient as a saint, I am sorry for wasting your time on a "lol drunk on the internet". But I felt I had no choice but to write this down, to finally acknowledge that I have a problem, if only to myself. Sorry for this way tl;dr post. But I don't know what to do anymore.

have you tried to not drink? like, "tonight i'm just not going to"? do you get anxious/panicky if you run out of wine and can't get any for the evening? was there something that triggered the nightly drinking 3 yrs ago? how do you cope if you're away from home (travelling, staying at your gf's place, etc.) - is there anxiety in not being able to be at home, in privacy, drinking?

sorry for all the questions, and the lack of any helpful words - i'd just like to know a bit more about your situation.

Hi there loggedoutdude. I don't have any good advices (1am, nothing good going on in my head at all), I just wanted to say well done for recognising this issue. I know quite a few people who drink more than you do and insist it's not a problem. It sounds like you're committed to finding a way through - good luck.

who do you drink with? who's even aware of how much you're drinking? in the same vein as just1ne's q's.

want to 2nd surfing's post--some folks I know wouldn't get as far as you have re: coming to this realization.

in a twisted way I miss having warning signs or alarm bells going off with regards to my health

i am familiar with this in other things and it's a terrible trap! You already have a warning sign: the warning sign is that you're worried, and that you know you're not doing your body right. (yes, two bottles of wine a night can't be healthy) (also: yeah-- tea, water, juice)

So: good on you for noticing and for facing up to yourself, and taking it more public than your conversations with yourself even if only as far as ilx.

(my immediate thought - and apologies if this is horribly naive - is that if you drink in the evenings you should do something that leaves no time in the evenings for you to drink. maybe even take up running, so you're tired out and maybe won't feel like you have to drink before bed? idk, i am no doctor nor expert on addiction)

Do you have physical withdrawal symptoms if you don't drink every night? Do you drink at all during the day to avoid having such symptoms? It's one thing to focus on strategies for not drinking but it's a whole other thing if you're actively physically addicted to alcohol.

The latter might necessitate medical intervention.

also, even though the shame of it might be terrifying, i think it'd be worth talking to your doctor to see if you can get a medical perspective on stopping drinking (e.g. what physical symptoms to expect, whether you should taper down or stop outright). if your doctor recommends aa that doesn't mean you have to go!

uh, xpost with ENBB

Thank you all for attending this thread, it means a lot...

To answer Justine's questions:
- Yes, I have tried not to drink (or rather, not to buy wine), but I indeed must admit I get anxious if I don't have any wine in. Very anxious. As I said, it feels so habitual, I cannot for the life of me think of "me" going without my wine anymore. I just cannot.
- There wasn't a big trigger that caused this, no. It slowly crept in. I've always been prone to addiction (marihuana, for one, I shook that off years ago) and this particular behaviour runs in the family, but there wasn't a huge "event" that lead me into drinking this much. It just... happened.
- If I am away from home I can cope relatively easily. I don't go on a binge when away from home, I adjust to other people's drinking behaviour and pace and am ok with that, although when in company I am the one who drinks the most. When with my girlfriend I don't drink as much either, but that is also because, y'know, sex takes up a lot of time.
- I don't feel anxiety about not being home so I can drink, no (relatively speaking, that is).

The drinking is a solitudinous thing, yes, very much. But it's the habituality of it that makes it so deceiving, covering up that it is a real problem, for me.

Thank you Zora, I appreciate that, a lot. And Darraghmac, I drink alone, nobody is aware of how much I drink.

xp's, catching up

you're either boozed up or getting laid and *you're asking us* for advice

OK, it does not sound like you're physically dependent on alcohol. My mother is an alcoholic who has been in detox/rehab several times and from what you've described it doesn't sound like you would go through physical withdrawal which is a good thing. Mental addiction is a very very real thing but at least you don't have to tackle both aspects tho unfortunately the physical part is often easier to actually kick.

do wish to echo the admiration that you're facing this without being driven to it, btw. that can only be positive.

Thank you all, so much. I am struggling to express how much all of your responses mean to me. Especially because I feel like a total wuss being logged out and all. But it was just one step too far to "confess" all this and do this under my real dn too. And yet you all aren't judging me for it, which is.. amazing <3

@C Sharp Major: thand you. That is sound advice, but I have tried starting to drink later and later in the evening, only to find myself drinking at a much higher pace. It's crazy to say I don't have any control over that, because I do, but most times it feels like I don't. And I end up staring at two empty bottles of wine and thinking: how the hell did I down that in three hours?

@Erica, thank you so much, you are talking a lot of sense, as usual. No, I do not drink during the day. I don't have the slightest desire. "During the day" equals working, being out there. And I am not constantly thinking about drinking at night during the day either. But I will make damn sure that after work I buy enough wine to "see me through" (ugh).

I suppose you, ENBB and C# are right, I should discuss this with my MD. I hadn't the courage before, this is only blowing up in my face right now because of completely trivial reasons. But all the better, I suppose, finally trying to face it...

"I cannot for the life of me think of "me" going without my wine anymore"

This is a huge thing and is a big thing for me wrt smoking (something wich I've sort of but not entirely recently given up). It was very hard to see myself as a non-smoker because being a smoker was an enormous part of my identity, my daily ritual and just such a habit. I made myself focus on the benefits of not smoking namely health and money an started buying myself stuff with the money I saved from not buying cigarettes. It sounds silly but it's been really helpful. Maybe you could do similarly with wine?

when i was in my early 20s i had a similar problem, and at the point where i decided that it was a problem, i made a rule for myself that i couldn't drink alone, and stuck to it. i also went about a year not drinking at all, then slowly phased back in over the course of several years.

good luck!

I don't have any advice, but best of luck, YLO

@ENBB, I am sorry to hear about your mother. I have given the psycological/physical addiction question quite some thought recently: which one applies to me? But to be honest, I am too afraid to even try to go without it and see if I have physical withdrawal symptoms... if that makes sense? The thought of not having booze in the house is too scary. And the odd thing is: I never think of that as "scary", don't feel it that way at all, I cruise through the day with a demanding job and all, until the moment comes when I know the shops will be closing soon and I don't have any alcohol in the house. Which is when I have to go out and buy some...

This is a huge thing and is a big thing for me wrt smoking (something wich I've sort of but not entirely recently given up). It was very hard to see myself as a non-smoker because being a smoker was an enormous part of my identity, my daily ritual and just such a habit. I made myself focus on the benefits of not smoking namely health and money an started buying myself stuff with the money I saved from not buying cigarettes. It sounds silly but it's been really helpful. Maybe you could do similarly with wine?

Erica, omg yes I know what you mean. I actually quit smoking four months ago, after having smoked for 15 years. I -never- thought I could do it, at first, it was my third try, but I did, I persevered and yes it saves a shitload of money and it's the healthy way to go and I feel really good about it.
Yet meanwhile, and this is something I didn't realise before or didn't want to know, - no matter how hard it seemed to me to quit smoking - quitting drinking seems way way worse to me, right now. Otherworldy. Which is why it is such a huge problem for me. I can't envision myself, my nights, without alcohol. I'd curse at tea or juice or water if they could hear me, I honestly have *no* idea how people just have an easy night in, drink some tea or water and go to sleep. I am so far removed from that notion. Which is exactly why it scares me so much right now.

fwiw (and bear in mind that while i am wearing my medical hat here I AM NOT A DOCTOR) the physical signs of addiction to alcohol do include anxiety when going without. also the dangerous physical signs of withdrawal don't generally make themselves known until just outside the window that many people give themselves for a 'night off' or what have you. or, more anecdotally, i know of someone who decided to quit drinking cold turkey after years of excess and they died from it. which isn't me trying to be scary, but rather: if you're on two bottles of wine a night (basically a 12pack), i would strongly urge you to consult a physician about how to approach your situation. even if only for the therapeutic benefit of talking to someone about it.

(that was heavily xposted, but hopefully of some use)

Again, thank you all for all your kind and helpful words. I truly feel like I am "misleading" you all not showing my real display name here and I do apologise for that, but I just couldn't bring myself to do that, for shame...

But thanks. Thank you all so much. It means a lot to see you all caring and giving a damn and responding in a constructive way.

x-posts Aw, thanks.

I drink roughly once a week (and have my own issues with that so I get how tough this can be) but the other six nights I have water, diet soda, coffee - anything. I think Sarah's suggestion of just setting a rule of not drinking alone an sticking to it is actually a very good one but know that sort of thing can be very hard to stick to especially if you get panicky without alcohol which iirc can actually be a sign of physical addiction so I would still probably consult a doc.

I wonder what you're so worried about wrt not having alcohol at night. Is that you will be restless, won't know what to do with yourself, bored . . . ? Maybe answering that will help you tackle the problem?

and (sorry for going in with tough talk), just to elucidate why quitting alcohol is scarier than cigarettes: in a very simplistic sense, alcohol basically unemploys certain neurotransmitters in your brain (GABA) whose job it is to counteract more excitatory transmitters. GABA says fuck it i don't have a job, and the excitatory transmitters amp up production because there's this alcohol sitting right there making life tough for them. if you withdraw the alcohol suddenly, you find that there's a surfeit of excitatory transmitters, and this is what leads to stuff like anxiety and, if it's a really bad job market for GABA, heart attacks and the like.

it's kind of an old saw in medicine that withdrawing from opiates and cigarettes is ~harder~ than alcohol, but alcohol withdrawal is the only kind that can kill you.

cf another anecdote from a friend who skipped a single night of drinking (he drinks...a lot) and called me the next day, panicked, asking if alcohol withdrawal was why he couldn't sleep and why his heart had been pounding all day. a: y.

@Dr. GBX ;-)

Thank you. I fear yet also believe you are right. I don't have the strength to simply go without drinks even a single night, I admit ashamedly. It is weird and very confrontational, as I never thought I would be this person, but writing this now, tonight, is my cry for help, however pathetic that may sound. And yes, I will take up your advice to speak to my physician about this - it is the shame I have to try and set aside that has kept me from doing so the last couple of days. Thank you.

Yeah, it's not pretty. My mom drinks from the morning on again now but at one point when she quit cold turkey she had a seizure in front of me. She was drinking at least a couple pints of vodaka day around the clock at that point though. GBX is right though - it's not something to mess with so I should reiterate the doc advice thing too.

Also you shouldn't feel shame. It's really common and it's not your fault. Probably pretty good to bear in mind that doctors see crazy stuff all the time and will not judge you or think of you differently. They're there to help.

http://cheerfulmonk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/inverted-u-graph-stress-challenge.gif

this is relevant

and xp you should not feel shame about this. shame will not help you feel healthy or happy, and is kind of a big problem i have with AA as a treatment modality for addiction (but that's just folks i guess). that being said: finding a sponsor, even if you won't have any truck with AA, is a good idea.

i do wish you the best of luck!

or what enbb said

First, I wish you all success in learning not to drink. It will be a huge relief for your liver, if nothing else.

I have only one suggestion that might be useful. Doing something like this requires facing the idea that you, alone, are not likely to get out of this without some help. Go ahead and try to do it alone, if that's where you need to start the process. If that does work out, then more power to you!

But addictions get built into your very cells and evicting them is usually more than a matter of personal will power, especially the first year or so. Alone is not as good as with the support of lover, friends and family. If you can't find closer-to-hand help, come here; we're lots better than nothing.

Good luck!

Buried in this NYT article about stores tracking your shopping habits was some really interesting research about...HABITS.

While each animal wandered through the maze, its brain was working furiously. ... as each rat learned how to complete the maze more quickly, its mental activity decreased. As the path became more and more automatic — as it became a habit — the rats started thinking less and less.

This process, in which the brain converts a sequence of actions into an automatic routine, is called “chunking.” There are dozens, if not hundreds, of behavioral chunks we rely on every day. Some are simple: you automatically put toothpaste on your toothbrush before sticking it in your mouth.

The process within our brains that creates habits is a three-step loop. First, there is a cue, a trigger that tells your brain to go into automatic mode and which habit to use. Then there is the routine, which can be physical or mental or emotional. Finally, there is a reward, which helps your brain figure out if this particular loop is worth remembering for the future. Over time, this loop — cue, routine, reward; cue, routine, reward — becomes more and more automatic. The cue and reward become neurologically intertwined until a sense of craving emerges.

This is IN ADDITION TO all the medical stuff & chemical dependency--your brain is undermining you all the time on these kinds of things. But maybe it helps to know that it is?

@Erica,

"I wonder what you're so worried about wrt not having alcohol at night. Is that you will be restless, won't know what to do with yourself, bored . . . ? Maybe answering that will help you tackle the problem?"

I wonder that myself, but can't bring myself to try it, going without alcohol one night. Which lead me to realise I have a big big problem on my hands here. I don't fear restlessness or boredom, but drinking alcohol has become such a habit that my biggest fear is to not drink alcohol and... then what? It's habit and I am scared straight thinking about having to ditch that habit.

@Gbx, thanks.. that's the stone cold truth... It is not harsh, it is very helpful. It all the more says I need professional help with this. Which, tonight, is very encouraging and helpful to hear.

@Aimless, aww thank you, indeed, addiction is founding itself into my very cells, I am finding that out. And I want clear myself, my cells, my identity, of that, but right now feel I will never achieve that (which is dramatic, I know, but also why I called upon ilx tonight in hiding no less, not something I would normally chose to do)

@Laurel.... :'-( ... yes, I did not know that but it is *exactly* how I feel, the habituality of it, and feeling I can't escape my own hard-wired brain patterns steering me that way... jez, it must be the firs time ever that something about rats made me fill up. Thank you so much.

I'm off to bed now, again, thank you all for you responses. It means more than I can express

being queer and sober-ish is tough. i'm hanging out tonight with a couple friends and am hoping they're not too high to talk. i mean they have chronic pain, etc., but i wind up feeling pretty lonely in situations where i'm the only sober person.

Most of my friends who I do music stuff are pretty focused on the music stuff when we're together. That's a little easier than just hanging out and drinking.

I've also reached the age where enough of us are sober, sober-curious, or pacing themselves because they work in the morning or they are eriving or whatev.

Every now and then there's a person who's getting steadily stupider while I keep my wits about me, and that is its own kind of fun.

Erg *stuff with

*driving or whatev

TY all— it was def two situations where I was very aware it was TOTALLY in my head. I like to imagine I’m controlled and self-aware enough to order myself to “SIT! STAY! Be yourself— this scene is not about you.” Nope. Still uh re-socializing I guess.

I’m three years in and am finally getting to where social situations don’t make me extremely anxious.

I still don’t get excited about any big gatherings and being around drinkers is a drag. Not because of temptation but…. I don’t know. It feels embarrassing for everyone, like i’m at an orgy with my clothes on.

i got dragged out to a dj set in an outdoors amphitheater type setting last night. it's funny how boring so much dance music is when you're sober, especially in a public setting like that. so much of it was boring when i was drinking too. it was a little surreal seeing all of these 'cool concert goers' do all of the concert going things that they do. so different than my life now. so not fun for me anymore. way past my bedtime for starters. got in the way of any trail running or lifting that day. (this morning i got up and positively white-knuckled it through breakfast and the drive out to my usual trail, i was so antsy to get into it after nothing for two days). i sat in the bleachers in the back and watched the full moon, a much more fulfilling activity than joining my partner and his friends in the crush of the crowd, raising my hands in the air to jamie xx's boring ass repetitive saccharine flat gentrifier-grey beat grid. my partner got to dance with friends and would come back to check on me from time to time, and he was grateful i came with him, so ultimately i didn't mind too much.

tomorrow we're hosting a party for the first time in a long time. it's a record-playing party at our place. i'm sure a few people will have some drinks (it's byob but we'll have some beer on hand too for the drinkers). but the vibe here is such that i know there won't be excess, plus they're all pretty responsible. i will be a little baked of course.

Enjoy the party, map. Stay well everybody.

Map, in my 11+ years of sobriety, I’ve not been able to get back into going to live music events. I guess the drinking was a big part of why I enjoyed them in the past. Still love music at home and in the car, but I am puzzled by sober friends who like to go to multi-hour events with all the hassles and fucked-up ppl. Oh well. Some childhood friends have recently been on my case to join them for 3 days of Phish this fall. A) I dont like phish and B) that would be a huge threat to my sobriety. Not going to happen but I’ve been reluctant to tell them why and feel like a buzzkill.

And I, too, have gotten way into trail running over the last 15 years. It’s an excellent alternative.