suicide

Oh Abbott HUGS HUGS HUGS. I know exactly how you feel, but there're always so many people who'd always feel sad if you actually did it. Pls don't.

feel like an ass saying this

ILX and the mad animals fanclub need you. Here's a little tip: indulge in something that makes you feel special and good, where you're pampered and cared for, like a nail salon, therapeutic mud bath, massage, etc, etc. - if that doesn't work and you still feel like an ass, then maybe you could schedule an appointment at the famous:

http://i33.tinypic.com/28he4u9.jpg

you climb up through whatever means, and you live to tell your pain that you were stronger than it was.

sage advice from upthread.
like you say in your post, this has been a nagging problem with your brain for a long time, and you've kept your brain in check for all that time. it sucks that it's there but you're real strong to have kept doing what you're doing and not letting it mess you around. wish you the best luck finding good ways to feel better.

A, I know all too well what you're saying. But just let it pass another day. And then another. Have you talked about this with others? Because you have to. Really. (I haven't completely *displayed* my feelings, as usual. But I did check with a doctor and now I'm on pills, although I fear not strong enough.) Suicide is not a solution: depression can be solved much easier and more rewarding, you can live happy. I don't know for how long this has been going on, but it has got to stop. I know from personal experience just going through the motions isn't going to solve it. Check with a doctor and get some pills. Then proceed towards therapy. Let's do this together, A. :-)

StanM: That's good advice for someone who's had a bad day at work or had an argument with someone and feels a little down. Abbott's far, far beyond that--you've just done the equivalent of advising someone to put out a fire with a water pistol.

abbott: you had been so helpful and kind to me when i was at my lowest not that long ago. if there's anything that i can do to return the favor, please get in touch with me somehow and any time. i mean it.

xp: ok

Abbott, again - you're a wise and illuminating person to interact with here and I've learned TONS from stuff you just randomly post, as if the knowledge you have was no biggie at all. It is. Hang in there!

^ this. Abbott, you are one of my favorite posters here and you have a lot to offer the world. Please don't give up on yourself.

And I'm willing to listen, too.

in a Donald Barthelme story there was a reference to Nietzsche saying somewhere that the thought of suicide helped get him thru many a long night -- Nietzsche, u will recall, did not end up killing himself, altho he did go pretty crazy,

Ha! Bernard, that does help actually. I always got bummed at this poster that was all around downtown Las Cruces like 'Hey look at all this mentally ills, they had lives people admire,' and half of them ended in suicide. But, a lot didn't too, I guess, which didn't occur to me until just now. You have to admire people who struggle with thoughts like that and never succumb! Good role models.

I was having a dark night last night, thanks for everyone's kind words.

abbott - hope you are feeling better, you are like the best person i know who i have never actually met. sending good vibes.

echoing everyone else; you're awesome. i hope you feel better soon.

Oh Abbott, you are supremely awesome and a brilliant person - having you on ilx is such a source of joy, the way you write about things makes me look at them newly and always in a more interesting light. It's horrible to know that you're in pain; you are a person who I don't want to be sad.

I am one of those people who likes to keep suicide as an ace up my sleeve, the thing I'll have left even if I haven't anything else - and sometimes it's a useful reassurance and sometimes it's a terrible crutch, and sometimes all I can do is daydream about being run over because then it wouldn't even be my fault. But I think about it pretty much on a daily basis, even when I'm not unhappy, just idly. The worst of it, sometimes, is hating yourself for it because it feels like such a selfish and such a petulant reaction - like a teenager stropping 'i'll kill myself and you'll be sorry'. But all I can do is live with it - and, like you said, go out of my way to make it impossible, by having things I can't leave unfinished and people I can't leave behind, and the unfinishable project of being a decent person to fall back on. It is no fun! You have all my sympathy.

I think that the past few summer weeks and especially the past week has had something maddening in the air. Technically the best thing to do would be to not sit on this loco energy but expel it by going on a long jog or a long walk.

I started having some suicidal thoughts lately just because there is a bunch of problems in my life that have been stacking up. I've also had thoughts of punching the wall or hitting my head against it. (I should be taking my own advice to get some exercise). However, I have come up with some ideas to alleviate my problems. One of which will be visiting a pysch/therapist next Tuesday.

Abbot, I don't know you outside this board, but I value your opinions much too highly for me to sleep soundly with the knowledge that I'll never read them again. I love you, and hang on.

i hope you're okay.

yeah. hang in there, kid.

I started having some suicidal thoughts lately . . . . However, I have come up with some ideas to alleviate my problems. One of which will be visiting a pysch/therapist next Tuesday.

― @( * O * )@ (CaptainLorax)

you hang in there, too.

I just realized that Abbott and I are the same age (I was reading a thread on ILTMI)

Abbott, do you have a boyfriend or husband? For some reason I'm thinking that you have a husband

I have always been under the impression that if I wasn't single then the problems in my life wouldn't seem so bad (this is just a hypothesis)

I have a husband and he's an A+ dude.

A+ dude husbands don't magic problems away. And StanM, just to let you know that little things that make things better for a little while are a good thing, imo, and I think it's good advice, even if it's advice that's hard to take on board when you feel like you've been kicked from all angles.

Hang on in there Abbott.

I have a husband and he's an A+ dude.

― spanikopitcon (Abbott), Saturday, 7 August 2010 23:30 (9 minutes ago)

has weird opinions about indie metal imho

abb just mailed your ilx email...

abbott hope you can feel better, you are a great person it seems to me.

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Saturday, August 7, 2010 5:49 AM

Thank you, ailsa - my message was mainly an attempt to bring some levity and maybe, optimistically, even a smile at that "ass hair salon" picture which I had rather far fetchedly tried to semi-relevantly link to abbott's message and words. (She said she felt like an ass, sometimes people who feel bad pamper themselves by getting their hair did, ass hair salon picture, done. That's how my brain cell works.) The stern reprimand afterwards only reminded me that my kind of childish thinking usually only annoys grown ups, which I tend to forget. Thanks for the consolation, though.

You'd think that this realisation would be enough to stay away from serious threads like this one, but I think that if someone like me, who has more than enough reasons to be depressed and suicidal if I thought about it enough to let it all become a problem (no close friends at all, no idea how to get out more, almost 40 year old vir(that movie with steve carroll), looking like frank black from the pixies, embarrassing health issues I probably should get looked at but won't, etc etc) can miraculously not have a problem and be at peace with his life then there's hope for everyone. Although that may not immediately be clear from my typical "just posting something i thought was funny to a thread I thought was relevant" posting style.

But anyway. More than tmi than I like to divulge.

yeah, had no idea you were so old!

Abbott, I am a lazy poster and more of a lurker really, but your posts are one of the main reasons I'm here.

Stan dont feel bad about what you posted, I thought it was sweet :/

I think we all know Stan meant well as he's a good guy!

Ass Hair Salon made me lol...levity is good!

<3 u all

StanM, you aren't alone with your aloneness issue. I've never been in a long-term relationship.

I stopped having suicidal thoughts. I think that my decision to start some routines that will improve my life has made me happier in general even though I haven't started those routines yet

Deciding to start is a good start :) keep your chin up, Lorax!

^ otm

abbott: after my own recent ordeals, i wish that i had something more profound or insightful to say. but you made it through the day and you will make it through the night -- i hope that that can give you strength to go on. and that you take more strength from the outpouring of support from everyone on this thread -- such support has kept me going, and i hope it does the same for you.

StanM: I'm sorry if I caused you any pain. Your post just reminded me of the "Buck, up kiddo!" statements that clinically/subcliniclly depressed people have to put up with all of the time--as if a serious disease like depression is caused by a failure of willpower. Again, I know you didn't mean it that way, and I'm sorry.

Don't worry, no harm caused! thx!

xpost He meant well. But you are right. My mum keeps saying "Oh a talk with your dad will sort everything out!" or what about "It'll get better as you grow older." Uh no. It gets worse tbh. Nor does having a (wonderful) partner help. I was single and depressed and now I'm married... and depressed. I don't think kids nor husband can really drag you out of a depression.

I have to say: the (legal) drugs do work. It's better. Not gone AT ALL. But at least the suicidal thoughts are gone.

A major problem is that depression-as-in-having-a-bad-day and depression-the-chronic-illness share the same word in English. Add to that the fact that PTSD shares many of the same symptoms, and it's no wonder that many people get confused.

I don't think it's fair that "buck up kiddo" is said to depressed people, either. Depression is just there, you don't choose it. The person who says "buck up kiddo" is getting a power trip off of you. You have to rise to the challenge though or your situation might get worse.

What I mean is that if you get offended by someone saying that you might not have the strength to get better. Part of what might cripple you is you allowing yourself to be affected by what some power tripping jerk says to you.

A major problem is that depression-as-in-having-a-bad-day and depression-the-chronic-illness share the same word in English. Add to that the fact that PTSD shares many of the same symptoms, and it's no wonder that many people get confused.

^^^^^Grade A Truth Bomb there.

Also the conflation of depression-the-chronic-illness with the idea of "going through a rough patch" - and that some people are able to pull themselves out of a rough patch, so they feel like they can tell people with depression-the-chronic-illness "oh, why don't you just go out to the pub and go play some football and get some friends" like OOPS ::slaps self upside the head::" why did I never think of that?" level of fucking d'oh. (Sorry, yes, my usual saw that I like to carp about on ILX depression threads.)

Nath, just a word of warning about the legal drugs working - please be aware that this effect may be temporary. I had that experience, when I first when on SSRIs, that the reflex suicide urge just went away, like someone had just turned on a light. And that was the most amazing thing. However, this effect is not permanent. If you don't find a way of dealing with root issues, they do come back, often in such a slow and insidious way that you don't realise it's happening. (At this point, my experience is that doctors will say "oh, let's just jack the dosage up, then" - and that's when the weird-ass side effects of SSRIs and their pernicious addictive nature start to rear their ugly heads.)

While you have that clear head, work on the root causes, make changes in your lifestyle and your attitudes and whatever else it is that you can.

I have been treated for depression and I am wondering what "depression the chronic illness" is like. I am not disparaging the idea at all, I hope I do not offend, I am just wondering what the control factors are. Like are you determined to be "chronically depressed" if there are no other contributing factors (grief, economic uncertainty, substance abuse, family problems etc.) in your life?

I believe that chemical depression is possible but if you struggled with that wouldn't that automatically define you as not doomed and "miserable"? It would be a disability like having a bad knee.

I guess what I am asking is why are people so condemning and impatient and demanding of someone who might not have a particularly bad life but who just struggles with feeling "down" a lot.

Again I do not wish to offend, it just seems like society spends a lot of energy berating people for not being "happy" when there is no way someone can objectively define another person as "happy".

I don't know that I'm qualified to answer that, given that my official diagnosis is "bipolar" which is by its nature a chronic and cyclical illness. I think that chronic depression is kinda like that, but without the mitigating highs in between the lows. You can manage it, you can do thing to alleviate it, but it's like it's always there, lurking in the background, and maybe even little setbacks like another person would shrug off, they can tip you into a downward spiral that ends up in that dark place you can't climb out of. It's like you go to put your weight on your leg, knowing that you're trying to walk across an uneven pavement, and that leg just won't bear the weight, in the way that a healthy not-broken leg would.

Same with the mind.

I mean, my mum is full of theories about "patterns of negative thinking" and "reinforcing neural pathways" which sounds a bit like overly deterministic bullcrap to me (I'm mistrustful of American and its relentless focus on "positivity" all the time.) But the idea that if you have one episode of major depression, it does make you at risk for having more - it's almost like it's this automatic pattern of thinking, that once you start sliding down into it, it's not like a bad mood you can snap out of. It's this quicksandy thing that gets hold of you, and the more you struggle not to fall into it, the deeper you get.

Sorry, I'm sounding like a bad self help book. It's something that I only really can describe in metaphor.

I'm having a bit of a triggered kind of a day and it's like standing at the edge of a really dark lake that you can't see the other side of, but you know what lurks there, and you do not want to step into that water, but there's a really strong headwind and you're feeling a bit too weak to climb. Bah.

I think the difference between "going through a bad patch" and "chronic depression" is kinda like the difference between a sprained ankle and a broken leg.

Like, if you have a sprained ankle, it fucking HURTS to walk, but still, you actually can still walk, in fact, you really rather need to. If you have a broken leg, you physically can NOT walk and you will actually do yourself some serious damage if you try.

Obviously a clumsy metaphor but, you know, I have bad days, and I have depressions, you learn to tell the difference in yourself.

I agree with you on the relentless focus on something as undefinable as "positivity", when it's tossed at you by someone who faces completely different life circumstances it is an exercise of power and nothing more. All the more reason to be depressed.

Like when my brother was a kid he lost a good friend in a tragic incident and afterward was determined to have "adjustment problems". It was decided that the solution was for him to develop skills outside of school, get socially involved in the community. It was a good thing for him in the long run, but for years he played sports and was heavily involved in extracurricular activities where he had to listen to various male authority figures giving him this patter, guys who had no such mark on their development. How can people so glib and ignorant govern your life.

If people take responsibility for what is medically defined as an "illness" their relative "happiness" or attitude is no one else's business.

Bad patch = good food still tastes good, funny jokes still make you laugh, good company can cheer you up temporarily, you can point to fairly rational reasons why you feel like crap on a stick most of the time.

The disease (from which I have not yet in my life suffered) seems quite a bit worse.

the bad patch CAN lead to the disease ... esp. w/t good food, good friends, good jokes, etc.

Kate, you are right, that's what my doctor also suggested: after one month (in about two weeks now) I have to check in with him and talk about possible therapy. I should go back to my therapist, slap him in the face and say: "Thanks for ignoring my anxiety remarks." He basically just waved'em away. I'm not blaming him though, it's all up to me and me ignoring the warning signs yet again.

i thought that the only real thing missing from my life was my 'soul mate' and once (or if) i found them my life would be pretty much perfect. i DID find that person and he is actually perfect in every possible way... but i'm still me. yes, now i have this amazing supportive person who is there for me 24/7, which is fantastic. but depression/anxiety/mental disorders aren't cured by love. maybe alleviated a little, but def not cured. so in some ways i feel like it's worse, bc before you meet that person, you can hold onto that hope that a relationship will save you.