Marijuana: Classic or Dud?

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Indeed. I always feel odd discussing this with Americans, because for me dope means resin, because it was always far more prevalent here than grass. These days grass is becoming more common, I suppose. I always preferred grass though, even though resin got me more stoned.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 02:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Resin always made me feel dirty.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 02:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Right, Kevin. I'm not going to argue that being stoned doesn't make you more likely to be in an accident. BUT the government likes to throw stats around like "50 percent of all traffic accidents are marijuana related", which only means that 50 percent of people who were tested for drugs after being in an accident had marijuana in their system. They could've not smoked that entire day, but it's still a "marijuana-related accident". Same thing with on-the-job injuries. Sure, people have been stoned at work, and being in that state lead them to injury. But it's a lot less than the numbers would lead one to believe. It's usually impossible to determine wherther the incident would've occurred if the person was buttass sober. And, regardless, those people are just dumb. Dumb people tend to get injured.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 02:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, I'm aware of the flaws in the way the government measures these things, and I'm totally for legalisation - I just don't understand why anyone needs to argue that cannabis is a totally positive thing in order to justify legalisation. I don't believe cannabis is harmful in any serious way, but what if it was? I would still be pro-legalisation. There are times when it's not a good idea to be stoned - this is irrelevant to any legal question, but the pro-legalisation movement often feels the need to pretend there are no negatives. I certainly wouldn't drive while stoned (hell, I wouldn't drive while sober - I'm an awful driver without a license, but you know what I mean) but I am more than happy to let a friend give me a lift if he's been smoking and is confident in his capabilities.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 02:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Totally agree. I don't think I've been arguing that it's a positive thing, but maybe it appears that way because I'm just trying to tip the scales away from the dominant IT'S EVIL point of view.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 02:37 (nineteen years ago) link

GO DRINK BEER YOU FUCKING WHITE HAT DOOSHBAGS

BONG PARTY IN MY ROOM!!!

Does John Coltrane Dream of a Merry-go-round? (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Resin always made me feel dirty.

-- Thermo Thinwall (tupac.chopr...) (webmail), November 15th, 2004 6:27 PM. (Thermo Thinwall) (later) (link)

Were you serious about this?

(Cus if so, I agree! I always feel like a homeless dude eating a banana out of the gutter when I do resin hits!)

Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:11 (nineteen years ago) link

CAN I BRING A BEER TO THE BONG PARTY?
I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING WHITE HAT AND I'M MORE OF A ASSJOCKEY THAN A DOOSHBAG. HOLLA!

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I was serious. I always felt like I was smoking motor oil or something.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Resin is awful, duh. This is why it's only smoked in extreme circumstances.
Although my friend in college had this pipe that had a resinator in it, and he'd smoke that shit, then put some back in the chamber or something, so eventually he'd have "fourth generation" weed, which was, as was the slang of the time, "the bomb". (No, he wasn't one of those people who obsessed over weed, either. yes, he was one of those who you wouldn't even suspect. Dude had 2 majors and graduated in 4 years.)

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:27 (nineteen years ago) link

I should go on record in saying that absolutely it should be legalized! But I will not suggest that its harmless. I know that its not the evil bud that "they" say it is, but it is still not without its problems. Its like my students arguing that it helps them concentrate (which, of course, it doesn't)...therefore offering the "no negatives at all" schtick. Yes, I totally believe that alcohol is a much more terrible drug for society (and most individuals), but I've only had to deal with a drunk student about twice in 15 years.

peepee (peepee), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Honestly, coffee has a more negative effect on me than pot does. If I drink coffee three days in a row then stop, I get a "withdrawal" headache. If I smoke pot three days in a row and then stop, I get the cleaning done.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:41 (nineteen years ago) link

...so to speak.

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Zuh?

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:48 (nineteen years ago) link

YOU'RE BEING A PERVERT AREN'T YOU?
NO> BAD. NO.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:50 (nineteen years ago) link

But it DOES help you concentrate! Wait wait, just listen. It helps you focus more intently on one thing. The problem is that there is still the same amount of attention to go around as there always is, and so anything that you're not focusing on gets NO attention. Hence, being able to pick out every nuance in a piece of music AND driving 5 mph under the speed limit because you can't concentrate on speed, other drivers, traffic lights, etc simultaneously. That's why it's a bad thing to do while performing any tasks which require such divided attention.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:52 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.ccguide.org.uk/driving.html#four

Cannabis may make you a safer driver by Jonathon Carr-Brown, Sunday Times, 13 August 2000

TAKING the high road may not be so dangerous after all. Ministers are set to be embarrassed by government-funded research which shows that driving under the influence of drugs makes motorists more cautious and has a limited impact on their risk of crashing.

In the study, conducted by the Transport Research Laboratory, "grade A" cannabis specially imported from America was given to 15 regular users. The doped- up drivers were then put through four weeks of tests on driving simulators to gauge reaction times and awareness.

Regular smokers were used because previous tests in America using first- timers resulted in the volunteers falling over and feeling ill. The laboratory found its guinea pigs through what it described as a "snowballing technique" - one known user was asked to find another after being promised anonymity and exemption from prosecution agreed with the Home Office.

Instead of proving that drug-taking while driving increased the risk of accidents, researchers found that the mellowing effects of cannabis made drivers more cautious and so less likely to drive dangerously.

Although the cannabis affected reaction time in regular users, its effects appear to be substantially less dangerous than fatigue or drinking. Research by the Australian Drugs Foundation found that cannabis was the only drug tested that decreased the relative risk of having an accident.

The findings will embarrass ministers at the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions (DETR) who commissioned the study after pressure from motoring organisations and anti-drug campaigners. Lord Whitty, the transport minister, will receive the report later this month.

Last week police revealed details of new drug-driving tests to be administered by the roadside, which were received with some amusement. They require suspected drug- drivers to stand on one leg, lean back and touch their nose with their eyes closed, and to count to 30 silently with their eyes shut. This is apparently difficult for those on a drug trip.

However, if the findings are less than frightening on the effects of marijuana, they may convince ministers to put more money into raising driver awareness of fatigue. Tiredness is now blamed for causing 10% of all fatal accidents, compared with 6% for alcohol and 3% for drugs.

A low-key radio campaign will be launched tomorrow warning drivers to take breaks.

The report's surprising conclusions will not sway organisations such as the RAC, which believes there is incontrovertible evidence that drug-driving is a growing menace. DETR statistics published in January showed a six-fold increase in the number of people found to be driving with drugs in their system after fatal road accidents. The figure jumped from 3% in 1989 to 18%.

Dr Rob Tunbridge, the report's author, refused to reveal his findings before they were published but said: "If you were to ask me to rank them in order of priority, fatigue is the worst killer, followed by alcohol, and drugs follow way behind in third."

Tunbridge admitted that the effect of drugs differed with the individual, the amount taken, the environment they were taken in and the point at which you tested reactions.

UK: Dope Drivers Safe: The Province, Canada, 21 August 2000

big chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree that it's not completely wrong to say that pot can help certain very specific types of cognition. I would be a mess if I tried to do statistics or write a psych paper stoned, but two years ago I wrote the best papers of my life for my late modern political thought class while constantly high.

Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 09:50 (nineteen years ago) link

We're playing with half a deck as long as we tolerate that the cardinals of government and science should dictate where human curiosity can legitimately send its attention and where it cannot. It's an essentially preposterous situation. It is essentially a civil rights issue because what we're talking about here is the repression of a religious sensibility. In fact not "a" religious sensibility, the religious sensibility. Not built on some con game spun out by eunichs, but based on the symbiotic relationship that was in place for our species for 50,000 years before the advent of history riding priestcraft and propaganda. So it's a clarion call to recover a birthright, however uncomfortable that may make us. A call to realize that life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience that primordial shamanism is based on is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego and its fear of dissolution in this mysterious mama matrix which is all around us and which apparently extends to infinity and where our historical future actually lies. This is the other thing.

It is now very clear that techniques of machine-human interfacing, pharmacology of the synthetic variety, all kinds of manipulative techniques, all kinds of data storage, imaging and retrieval techinques, all of this is coalescing toward the potential of a truly demonic or angelic kind of self-imaging of our culture. And the people who are on the demonic side are fully aware of this and hurrying full-tilt forward with their plans to capture everyone as a 100% believing consumer inside some kind of beige furnished fascism that won't even raise a ripple. The shamanic response in this situation I think is to PUSH THE ART PEDAL THROUGH THE FLOOR.

Years and years ago before the term "psychedelic" was settled on there was just a phenomenological description. These things were called "consciousness-expanding" drugs. I think that's a very good term. Think about our dilemma on this planet. If the expansion of consciousness does not loom large in the human future, what kind of future is it going to be? To my mind the psychedelic position is most fundamentally threatening when fully logically thought out because it is an anti-drug position, and make no mistake about it, the issue is "drugged." How drugged shall you be? Or to put it another way: consciousness. How conscious shall you be? Who shall be conscious? Who shall be unconscious? Imagine if the Japanese had won World War II, taken over America, and introduced an insidious drug which caused the average American to spend six and a half hours a day consuming enemy propaganda. But this is what was done. Not by the Japanese but by ourselves. This is television. Six and a half hours a day! Average! That's the average! So there must be people out there hooked on twenty-four hours a day. I visit people in L.A. who have one set on in every room so they're racking up a lot of time for the rest of us.

You see what is needed is an operational awareness of what we mean by "drug." A "drug" is something which causes unexamined, obsessive habituated behavior. You don't examine your behaviour, you just do it, you do it obsessively. You let nothing get in the way of it. This is the kind of life we're being sold on every level: to watch, to consume, to buy. The psychedelic thing is off in this tiny corner, never mentioned and yet it represents the only counter flow toward a tendency to just leave people in designer states of consciousness, not their designers, but the designers of Madison Avenue, the Pentagon, so forth and so on. This is really happening. It's only a matter of how tight you draw the metaphor that you realize it. I've been coming and going from Los Angeles a lot recently and when the plane swings out over the eastern part of the city looking down is like looking at a printed circuit. All these curved driveways and cul-de-sacs with the same little modules installed on each end of them and you realize that as long as the Reader's Digest stays subscribed to and the TV stays on these are all interchangable parts. This is this nighmarish thing which McLuhan and others foresaw, the creation of the public. The public has no history, has no future, lives in a golden moment created by credit which binds them ineluctably to a fascist system that is never criticized. This is the ultimate consequence of having broken off our symbiotic relationship with the vegetable, feminine, maternal matrix of the planet. This is what ended partnership. This is what ended balance between the sexes. This is what set us on the long slide.

So now the culture crisis grows ever more intense. The stakes rise ever higher. If there were ever a time to be heard and be counted in order to clarify thinking on these issues it would be now because there is a major attack on the Bill of Rights underway in the guise of a so-called "Drug War" and somehow the drug issue is even more frightening than communism, even more insidious. McCarthy told America that communism was under the bed, he was wrong. Ronald Reagan and George Bush tell America that drugs are in the living room and they're right! It is here. It is real. It is the hydrogen bomb of the third world. The quality of rhetoric emanating from therapists and psychologists and psychoanalysts is going to have to radically improve or we are going to have happen to us what happened to genetics in the Soviet Union. We're going to be Lysenkoized. We're going to be made lilly-white and all opportunity for exploring this dimension is going to be closed off - almost as a footnote to the supression of these synthetic poisonous narcotics which are mostly dealt by governments anyway. But the psychedelic issue, as I said, it's a civil rights issue. It's a civil liberties issue. The reason women couldn't be given the vote in the nineteenth century, there was a very simple overpowering reason that was always given: it would destroy society. This was also the reason why the king could not give up a divine right, chaos would result! And this is why we're told drugs cannot be legalized, because society would disintegrate. This is just nonsense. Most societies have always operated in the light of various habits based on plants. The whole history of mankind could be written as a series of made and broken relationships with plants. Think about the influence of tobacco on merchantilism in 17th and 18th century Europe. Think about the influence of coffee on the modern office worker, or the way the British influenced opium policy in the far-east to rule China, or the way the CIA used heroin in the American ghettos in the 1960s to choke off black dissent and black dissatisfaction with the war. History is about these plant relationships. They can be raised into consciousness, integrated into social policy and used to create a more caring meanigful world, or they can be denied the way sexuality was denied until the force of the work of Freud and others just made it impossible to maintain the fiction any longer. This choice of how quickly we develop into a mature community able to address this issue is entirely with us. Certainly people like Stan Grof and others have worked valiantly to keep this kind of thing alive but, my god, you can count them on the fingers of one hand.

I should mention that DMT is an endogenous neurotransmitter. Yes, DMT, the most powerful of the hallucinogens occurs in the human brain as a normal part of metabolism. It also is a Schedule I drug, so you're all holding and this might be the basis for some kind of case. To just show what absolute poppycock all this nonsense is: People Have Been Made Illegal!

Terrence McKenna, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:36 (nineteen years ago) link

if only the REAL Terrence McKenna was an ilx0r

Does John Coltrane Dream of a Merry-go-round? (ex machina), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Amen. RIP, Terrence McKenna.

hi my name's Terrence and I'm going to enjoy myself first, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:47 (nineteen years ago) link

is that u aaron?

Does John Coltrane Dream of a Merry-go-round? (ex machina), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:48 (nineteen years ago) link

no, sorry

'terry', Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:51 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.justaplant.com/store/book.html

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 07:51 (nineteen years ago) link

two years pass...
Hi dere I read boing boing etc. Actually Hoosteen called my attention to it.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:02 (seventeen years ago) link

That kind of points to marijuana being classic as.

Drooone, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Boing Boing has some good stuff when it's not trying to be all political. For example, it brought my attention to the genius of Garfield comics sans Garfield thought bubbles.

Jeff Treppel, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:18 (seventeen years ago) link

lightweights!

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:24 (seventeen years ago) link

any serious stoner would know you're just in for a night of endless puking and two days of headaches

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:25 (seventeen years ago) link

hahahaha the numbers of times i have said this:

Sanchez: Time is going by really, really, really slow...
Sanchez: What's the score in the Red Wings game?

max, Monday, 14 May 2007 02:57 (seventeen years ago) link

i didn't believe him when he said that he had done it before.

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 03:15 (seventeen years ago) link

dude, we used to put O's into brownies in high school. lfam, i can assure you that i have NEVER EVER been so hi in my entire life. i ate one before my junior prom, which was on top of this skyscraper in a glass pyramid bar, and there were all these thunderstorms going on in jersey, and i spent the entire night just looking at lightning strike very far away, ignoring my date and all the great blow going around.

guess my point is that if they put an O into some brownies, well, they'd be stonneddd..

the table is the table, Monday, 14 May 2007 03:27 (seventeen years ago) link

classic: still being stoned the next morning day, with little to no headache.

the table is the table, Monday, 14 May 2007 03:28 (seventeen years ago) link

But dude he said they put a 1/4 of an O in the brownies!

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 14 May 2007 03:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I went to a girl-only birthday party two years ago, ate about five pot brownies. Everyone was wearing crazy party dresses and little hats. I had this blue wig on, I felt like some space person watching an otherworld preschool. One of the 8,942,675 things I get paranoid about on pot: I am convinced everyone's making sexual passes at me, and that made it all the more awkward.

Abbott, Monday, 14 May 2007 05:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Later we all ate chocolate mushrooms but fortunately they kicked in after I went to someone else's house. 'OMG magic how did I end up at taylorb's house?' When it was two houses down.

Abbott, Monday, 14 May 2007 05:31 (seventeen years ago) link

i can empathighs..i went to th hospital on no less than 3 occasions thinking i was "dying" after smoking too much in my 20's...there is nothing quite so humbling as an ambulance ride answering questions to a well meaning EMt whilst having a panic attack.

danbunny, Monday, 14 May 2007 06:45 (seventeen years ago) link

and this is pretty much pre heavy internet use so it wasnt as if I was googling my symptoms or anything..th first time i "bequeathed" my shirt to the ER nurse.

danbunny, Monday, 14 May 2007 06:48 (seventeen years ago) link

<3 u

classic for certain times, places, can't do it all the time, not even every week, and in fact do forget abt it for weeks or months. still, better than alcohol (and its after effects) for me. also, really depends on the strain - some is paranoia bzzz pot, some is chill out weed, etc. it look me many years to discover the joys of the v minor, some wld say old lady but whatevr, dose.

rrrobyn, Monday, 14 May 2007 13:06 (seventeen years ago) link

One of the 8,942,675 things I get paranoid about on pot: I am convinced everyone's making sexual passes at me

I get that way on cocaine, but I don't call it "paranoid."

kenan, Monday, 14 May 2007 14:29 (seventeen years ago) link

i once, when younger, several yrs ago, ate w33d brownies before getting on a plane from vancouver to toronto b/c i thought they'd be better for me than gravol and i'd pass out before the plane left the tarmac. after 45 min to an hour of being unable to move my body and feeling trapped in a metal tube breathing canned over-used air and in total awe/disbelief abt how planes take off and then stay in the sky and wondering how the laws of physics are laws and not just ideas of crazed minds, i passed out for 4 hrs.

still looking for an alternative to gravol

rrrobyn, Monday, 14 May 2007 14:41 (seventeen years ago) link

x post table

oh, i've eaten baked goods before, but i still didn't believe the cop. like, you would know not to split a 1/4 oz between two people if you'd done it before, and even if you made that mistake, you would know you weren't overdosing. like dude!

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 22:39 (seventeen years ago) link

it look me many years to discover the joys of the v minor, some wld say old lady but whatevr, dose.

and this is OTM! one time i help prepare a "smokers nouveau" party at school where all the social elite decided that smoking pot was cool again by rolling like a 1/2 O into big joints before the party (and that was just for the chumps who didn't bring their own!). so i was super stoned before the party. then i was even more stoned once it started, and then i got stoned more, and then i was sober. it happened to lots of us. it was a big let down. so i found that the response curve for pot over period of ~8 hours is a parabolic curve, and it doesn't take much to get near the top.

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 22:42 (seventeen years ago) link

that was still a pretty fun party

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 22:44 (seventeen years ago) link

so not a parabolic curve, but something else. starting slightly below zero, climbing geometrically, falling asymptotically

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 22:45 (seventeen years ago) link

does this involve logarithms?

rrrobyn, Monday, 14 May 2007 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link

no actual measurements so no!

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 23:14 (seventeen years ago) link

or, rather, i don't know

lfam, Monday, 14 May 2007 23:14 (seventeen years ago) link

A few years ago I was high enough that I spent the duration of a party sitting in a chair grinning at everyone. The host of the party called me "The Resident Laughing Buddha."

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 14 May 2007 23:30 (seventeen years ago) link


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