Pit Bulls: What's the appeal?

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Actually we're all cartoon characters up in here.

(goshdarned xposts!)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, the dogs that killed Diane Whipple were NOT pit bulls.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

um, yeah, x-post-a-go-go.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I think some people will cross the street to avoid any kind of dog - and your dog looks very cute Luna. However, I am curious about why someone would want something that clearly, at least signifies, a threat to many people.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the risk is just too great in owning one of those dogs. that is all.

I agree, which is what prompts the question.

I know the Whipple case dogs weren't pit bulls, but pit bulls entertain a simillar reputation.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

am curious about why someone would want something that clearly, at least signifies, a threat to many people.

I'd put this same question to gun owners.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

However, I am curious about why someone would want something that clearly, at least signifies, a threat to many people.

Also, what's the appeal of a shotgun? (xpost)

I'm not saying this is a factor for Luna, but she is a woman living alone in a dangerous city.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Nobody walks their shotgun.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

those were presa canarios or whatever the heck they're called that gygax! mentioned upthread, right?

xposts, whoo hoo!

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

They're not considered threatening where I live. I guess it depends on where you live. There are two or three pits on my block.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

so if i see someone with a pit-bull and i cross the street to avoid it, i'm being ingnorant¿
just when i was sick of debating.
me having concern for my safety = ignorance. great. thank you.

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd imagine your less likely to run into someone toting a shotgun walking down the street than someone walking a pit bull.

damn x-post

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

If it was legal to walk around with your shotgun people would.
Go to rural Arizona and see what happens when laws allow you to carry weapons around.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

This is what happens when devil's advocates come together.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway you're switching up the argument, ie whether you can walk around with a gun has nothing to do with the question. You asked why someone would want to own something that threatened other people. People have owned such things since the beginning of time.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

If it was legal to walk around with your shotgun people would.

and if it was legal to own one of these, people would too:

http://www.supposedlysane.com/busterdog.jpg

what's your point?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

What's yours?

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

However, I am curious about why someone would want something that clearly, at least signifies, a threat to many people.

There are lots of reasons to own a pit bull, which have been enumerated at length. Making a major decision like choosing the pet with whom you'll spend the next decade or so should be a personal one, and ideally not influenced by others' stereotypes.

xp-a-rama

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway you're switching up the argument, ie whether you can walk around with a gun has nothing to do with the question

you're the one who brought up the shotgun, I was merely pointing out that owning a dog in a city is something that is done in public.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

whereas shotguns are kept in private obv.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Nobody walks their shotgun.

Cause that was a total non-sequitur

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i. am. not. ignorant.

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway you're switching up the argument

I didn't bring guns into this, Luna did.

whether you can walk around with a gun has nothing to do with the question. You asked why someone would want to own something that threatened other people.

No, I asked why someone would want a pit bull. "To Threaten Someone" was someone else's explanation....and an unattractive one at that.

People have owned such things since the beginning of time.

Does that make it right?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, I don't mean ignorant in the 'hey you're a fucking dumbass' sense here - but as you are allowed your opinion, aren't I allowed mine?

I don't have pitbulls, or would I have a dog at all - for reasons of safety.

No, people don't walk guns - however I personally know more people who have died or been grievously wounded by them than have ever been bitten by a dog of any kind. Dogs are to be feared and reviled, while guns are 'yeah, hey okay, come look at my grandfather's arsenal, it's cool'.

You don't have to agre with me, but by the same token, don't expect me to agree with you. I have my own, personal experience going on here, something I live with every day... You have paranoia and overly hyped media horror stories. You think I'm a bad mother because I have pitbulls in my house with my child? That's okay, I respect your right to feel that way, and yes, I can even see where you're coming from. But can you see my point at all?

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

However, I am curious about why someone would want something that clearly, at least signifies, a threat to many people.
Also, what's the appeal of a shotgun? (xpost)

I'm not saying this is a factor for Luna, but she is a woman living alone in a dangerous city.

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...), January 26th, 2004 1:33 PM. (Oops)

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

You have paranoia and overly hyped media horror stories

this sounds wrong - I'm not sure how to express what I do mean here.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

But I do wonder, Alex, why you'd bother asking the appeal of something you have already clearly made up your mind about and have no intention of being swayed on at all? Devil's advocate is one thing - being purely argumentative is another.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

See now we're talking about whether it's "right" to walk around with someone that threatens others. The initial question was just "what's the appeal?"
I think it's messed-up to own anything that is used primarily to threaten other people. But other people get off on that, and I can definitely see why they want such things.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do you presume that I'd already made my mind up? Do you win every debate you've ever been in? Is it my fault that your reasons just don't add up to me? You're perfectly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

See now we're talking about whether it's "right" to walk around with someone that threatens others. The initial question was just "what's the appeal?"

The question shifted because someone explained the appeal of owning as pit bull as a means of threatening someone, which you must admit, begs further questions, no? (i.e. why do you feel the need to threaten someone, etc.)

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Because Alex you're still saying that you don't see the appeal they have to others, when many people have repeatedly explained what they like about the breed. No one is trying to get YOU to like the dogs. Your original question was "why do people like these dogs?" It was answered and yet you still go on saying "well thanks but that's not good enough for me". Fine. YOU don't see the appeal, but can you see how others---you know, people who aren't you---may like them?

xpost

the threatening aspect of them is just one (IMO twisted) reason why someone would own one, and isn't one that anyone here has given.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you always so argumentative? Can you not fathom at all that nearly every post you've made would lead someone to believe that you had already made your mind up? Have you any regard for other people's actual real life experience where you have admitted you have none? Do you win every debate YOU'RE in, or do people just give up and stop arguing with you because you refuse to see another side of anything?

All I ever meant to say was I have pit bulls, I love them, mine and the ones I know are wonderful dogs, THOUGH I REALIZE THERE ARE LOTS OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT. That's it. Nothing else. Fini.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, we'll all just have to agree to disagree then.

the threatening aspect of them is just one (IMO twisted) reason why someone would own one, and isn't one that anyone here has given.

Wrong. Nickalicious wrote:

Maybe part of their appeal IS their ability to fuck-shit-up. A well-trained fuck-shit-up dog might seem very appealing in terms of personal protection and whatnot. I guess what I'm saying is, considering a well-trained pit is more likely to fuck up some would-be attacker's shit than their owners, well...where's the non-appeal in that?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

where did alex say "convince me these are the best dogs ever"¿
quite frankly i understand why pit-bull lovers love them pit-bulls - but feel many other breed of dog offer the same qualities with half the danger (or perceived danger).

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

And I sincerely apologize if any of y'all think I was calling you ignorant - that isn't at all what I meant, and I think you're by and large a very well educated, good looking, charismatic and witty group, with ass loads of street cred 'n shit.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you always so argumentative?

Are you always so defensive? Believe me, there are plenty of examples of threads around ILX where I am pointedly argumentative, and honestly this isn't one of them. I really don't have a stake in this, it was just curiosity. But the fact that I still remain unconvinced is no reason for you and Oops to demonize me, thanks very much. Enjoy your pit bull and may you never have any troubles with him.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I meant no one here has given that as a reason why they personally chose to own one. Yes, obviously someone here has listed it as a possible part of their appeal to Joe Schmo.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever. This thread wasn't supposed to start a fuckin' brush fire. It was just a question. Sheesh!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not trying to demonize you at all, Alex - yeah, I do get a little defensive, but do you win every debate you've ever been in? was kind of a fucked up thing to say - all I was attempting to do was explain myself, and I'm sorry if it seemed like something else. Yes, I understand what you're saying - I admitted to having had reservations myself, but now I know that I didn't have all the information, and experience has changed my view. That's all, really.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex, the fact that arguments like A) "I think the dog is nice" B) "I think the dog is attractive" C) "I know how to train and handle one properly" aren't enough to "convince" you of the appeal of the dog says more about how you came onto the thread than anything else--you asked what the appeal is, people have explicitly told you, and still it is basically as if it is not good enough. This is a silly "argument" because it's one a pit-bull fan will never win with out, despite your claim of no-stake. You obviously have an opinion and it's not one that you are seeking to find out more about. Fair enough, because I do the same thing but for heaven's sake I don't hide it under the guise of demonization and persecution. You're getting this response because people are getting frustrated with trying to discuss this with you (and, uh, certain others on this thread--like I said, if you let one bad experience color your entire perspective on a species, breed, whatever and those that associate with them, that's your own issue to be dealt with, no one else's). You can't possibly tell anyone that you don't enjoy this just a little bit, no?

FWIW I think pit bulls are hideous and I absolutely loathe dogs at this point in my life...

― Allyzay, Monday, 26 January 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"I meant no one here has given that as a reason why they personally chose to own one."
my dad picked ours up because he was an extremely friendly, sweet, good-natured stray and he felt that despite the bad reputation these dogs have, this dog did not fit the stereotype.
if i were ever to get a dog (i would actually never get a pet of my own, but that's just a whole other thread), i would choose a pit bull, due to the prior experience i've had of them being wonderful dogs (and the vet's wise words that pit bulls are only violent dogs if they are raised violently)

― Felcher (Felcher), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

And your question was answered many times, yet you didn't acknowledge these people's experiences with their dogs and continued to hold your pre-conceived notion about pits, which is why people came to the very reasonable conclusion that you had your mind made up before you even started the thread.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

oops, i missed the all important "that as" part of your quote when reading it and subsequently pasting and answering it, so don't get confused about my intentions behind that post.

― Felcher (Felcher), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

perhaps a better question would be: "why a pit-bull over other breeds of dogs¿"
say like a retriever
http://www.deepcreekrealty.com/images/retriever.jpg
x-postfest

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't pick a pit to the exclusion of all other dogs - I love dogs - I got the first one because my ex wanted him "he's so cute!", and got past my own misgivings once I got to know him. I got the second because the pounds in Los Angeles county are FULL of pit mixes, and she was adorable, and I wanted to rescue her. I also really wanted a chocolate lab, but figured three dogs would be way too much.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

grizzly bears are best

http://www.travel-images.com/alaska19.jpg

― aleksandr supertramp (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

You obviously have an opinion

Did I ever once claim NOT to have an opinion on this subject matter? Look at the language in the question, for pete's sakes, it quite obviously takes assumes a dismissive/derisive tone towards the animals. That said, I am still honestly and legitimate puzzled by the appeal of owning such an animal. As to why I continue to be puzzled, hasn't there ever been an instance in your life wherein someone handed you an explanation that you SIMPLY DIDN'T BUY? or at least simply didn't fathom?

I don't hide it under the guise of demonization and persecution.

Because Oops was getting frustrated by the mere fact that I still hadn't changed my tune and joined the happy I love Pit bulls club, he resorted to petty character assasination and Luna implied that I'm needlessly argumentative. Maybe "demonization" and "persecution" are too weighty terms for that, but I found it a bit unnecessary.

You're getting this response because people are getting frustrated with trying to discuss this with you (and, uh, certain others on this thread--like I said, if you let one bad experience color your entire perspective on a species, breed, whatever and those that associate with them, that's your own issue to be dealt with, no one else's). You can't possibly tell anyone that you don't enjoy this just a little bit, no?

I don't enjoy being reduced to a cliche, thanks very much. Perhaps I should have titled this thread: DEFEND THE INDEFENSIBLE: PIT BULLS! Would that have made my predisposition about the topic clearer?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you not get about "they are loyal, playful, loving etc"????
No one---including myself---is trying to get you to change your tune and start sucking Pit Bulls' dicks but you continue to deny that they can possibly be appealing to OTHER people, and that's not a matter of not being able to fathom people's explanations but just hard-headedness.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Pit Bulls: What's the appeal?

They're Delicious!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you not get about "they are loyal, playful, loving etc"????

I am suspicious of the categorical nature of that statement when there is ample evidence to suggest otherwise. But, maybe I'm just being Sammy Safety.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

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