"The Wire" on HBO

that kermode quote, still sucking.

or more the reverence w. which KJ treats it.

I like that quote! (Although I think I prefer Simon's version of it "Fuck the average reader")

simon's quote sucks even harder.

The article is very over-written for such a declarative show, but he's pretty much OTM throughout.

xp, why?

it falsifies the show anyway -- it wouldn't be any good if it wasn't entertaining.

i said elsewhere that i think in context kermode's quote may mean something different -- ie the groundlings watching 'hamlet' were not the early jacobean equivalents of hbo subscribers.

xp: Of course, but assuming the audience is intelligent (and having 60 hours to play with) allows you to a different kind of entertaining, which is what they're getting at.

Has this article been discussed on another Wire thread?

"they're getting at" = "Simon is getting at"

it's a bit like arguments about dance music in rock mags where it's like such-and-such TRANSCENDS the genre... anyway i think that kind of discourse is a way of not actually talking about 'the wire', but slamming other shows; and i don't have faith that KJ has much knowledge of other shows really.

it is differently entertaining (though not by *that much*) from 'the shield', but he's saying it's different-as-in-for-better-people.

I do get the impression that Simon is an asshole (and not just from that quote), so I agree that that's probably his interpretation of his own quote. It's not mine though, which is why I really like it.

I still need to watch Homicide and The Shield.

ta-da. i have a theory KJ hasn't -- most film dudes are kind of resistant to TV, *especially* when it's touted as being 'as good as' the movies. they feel the need to defend their home medium or some shit. that's probably the first major s&s article on a tv show -- they did one on 'berlin alexanderplatz' but sort of treated it as a film. except that since the early 70s tv has funded loads of "films" -- derek jarman's, fassbinder's -- and tv has arguably been where most people have seen "british cinema".

so in terms of highbrow film mags' relation with TV, this was Kind Of A Big Deal.

the shield is good but also kind of impossible to take seriously

yeah it's pretty mental

I am new to Sight and Sound. Only really started reading every issue a year or so ago and know nothing about the history of British film criticism, so perhaps I'm missing the upturned noses and backhanded compliments you detect in the article. xxp

Shield has its moments, but it is no way as good as the Wire. Nor was Homicide.

lol, no it's not like that. KJ is mostly associated w. film comment (in new york); i am only guessing that he's not a big TV guy, but this is the first time i've seen him engage with it. and it's not exactly about upturned noses* or british criticism -- don't think film comment does much, if any, tv crit either.

*it's kind of interesting that among famous showrunners, DS has the smallest connection with movies; at the same time, he has worked very hard to position himself and the show more seriously than practically any US filmmaker this decade.

xpost

i'm not about making direct shield-wire comparisons, they hit different notes, and do things the other one doesn't. ditto homicide -- it is more formulaic than the other two, but the characters/ensemble is mad strong.

Thrilling star sighting in the East Village the other day: The Greek!

> When Michael finally turns on Namond and beats him to a pulp, we're witnessing much more than an explosion of adolescent anger: we're confronted with two characters at a spiritual crossroads, one moving into abasement, the other into regeneration.

I wonder how much better that article would be if he wasn't making shit up.

Isn't he referring to the time when they got in a fight at Cutty's gym? But "bloody pulp" makes it sound like KJ is conflating that fight with Michael's beatdown of Kenard.

guys, i just got e-mailed an updated syllabus for something and one of the classes is called Negotiations: Tactical Maneuvers of a Dickensian Nature and all i could think about is the baltimore sun.

I do get the impression that Simon is an asshole

Really? Just kidding, I thought this was a known fact. Don't get me wrong, I am forever grateful to the man for producing such a beautiful work of art, but damn, I saw him at a forum recently and he was straight up rude to some people asking questions. But I guess that bitterness and anger were necessary for such a biting piece social commentary as the wire.

Has anybody posted this awesome CJR piece with Simon?
http://www.cjr.org/cover_story/secrets_of_the_city.php

Shield has its moments, but it is no way as good as the Wire. Nor was Homicide.

homicide comparison isn't fair imo, cable vs. network.

I have not watched these, but whatevs:
http://www.theatlantic.com/movies/wire.mhtml

http://periscopestudio.com/?cat=23

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc275/thehousenextdoor/2008/Links%20for%20the%20Day/April%202008/April%2030%202008/wire03.jpg

:D

I finally started watching this a couple of weeks ago - the last disc of season one should be in the mail now. For some reason I was kind of oblivious to it forever, like I kept hearing about it but never imagined that I'd like it, not being a big fan of Law and Order, Homicide, or any other TV cop show. Holy shit was I wrong. It started kind of slow but I'm totally hooked now.

Holy shit at Wire/Simpsons

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

http://periscopestudio.com/wp-content/uploads/wire01_web.jpg

i cant seem to get clay davis' catchphrase out my head.

Is that supposed to be another Simpsonized thing? Cause it's pretty good, but not very Groening.

many lol/wtf posts in this thread

amazing show, seasons 2-3-4 are my favorite, and it sounds like 'sean gramaphone' was pretty much setting himself up to hate it from the first ep

to hate season 5 i mean

those cartoons give me the heebie jeebies more than Shitting_cumming_asian_dicknipples.jpg for some reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS7gAt7XkBk

i have sorta just tripped over this on late-night TV down here, it's around season 4 i think? so so so so good, i'm definitely gonna have to go back to the start.

3 > 1 > 2. that's as far as i'm through in the past month. couldn't really get with the eastern european prostitute thing, as much as i loved frank sobotka as a character. bell + barksdale = epic, beautiful. can't wait for season 4 (torrent). i'm behind everything.

ziggy was fun but i'm glad he got the time. maybe season 6?????????/

I didn't think I'd be into the dockworker stuff but it seems they can thrown anything into the mix and write it so you start to like the characters and want to see what happens to them. Ziggy was an idiot, the Fredo of the Sobotka family. I have no idea if he's going to ever surface again.

I'm midway through season 3 now and I'm glad it's back to Stringer and Avon and Prop Joe and all that.

Maybe this is a stupid question but I've been wondering - why heroin? Doesn't anyone smoke crack in Baltimore, or is that a whole other unseen and equally big part of the problem going on off-screen?

I only finished Season Four two weeks ago. I've dipped periodically into this thread to sort out plot complications but have been too intimidated to post.

Without having seen Season Five I'd rate'em 3>4>1>2.

Favorite character: Prop Joe. Nothing this character (and this actor) does is predictable.

2 is totally underrated by jerks

you think Ziggy would like Season 2?

why heroin? Doesn't anyone smoke crack in Baltimore

of course they do but heroin is the #1 problem in the city. 'the corner' mini-series covered both equally iirc

4 > 2 > 1 > 3 > 5

4 > 2 > 1 > 3 > 5

-- abanana, Tuesday, June 10, 2008 3:04 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

^^^^^^

I'm almost done with Season 3, should have it polished off by the weekend. I'm glad that the Barksdale organization is back in focus this season, although so far the dockworkers are more interesting to me than Carcetti and the whole city politics angle.

That's probably all I'll say for a while, though. I've been resisting even opening this thread every time it gets bumped.