recommend me some essential graphic novels to acquire

One ongoing title I'm really enjoying is The Boys, a couple of steps farther out on the superheroes-in-the-real-world branch from Watchmen, and with a lot more cynicism and black humor. (DC got cold feet and pushed it to another publisher after a gerbil-up-the-ass scene.) I think the trade paperback of the first few issues is just out, or about to come out.

Although ASS is a good starter superhero comic (as it requires pretty much nothing in the way of foreknowledge of the characters or themes), most superhero stuff is way too mired in years of continuity to recommend to newcomers.

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment of ASS -- it can be read on the surface without much knowledge of Superman mythos, but if you only give it that surface reading, it's merely an okay comic book. It's a brilliant comic for people who have really internalized decades of Superman stories.

Yeah, you know, I've never really been interested in Watchmen for the same reason: it's supposed to be this marvelous deconstruction of superheroes, but I don't have much experience with superheroes in the first place that warrants deconstructing.

Which is exactly why I don't understand Watchmen's position as Standard Introductory Comic.

Maybe the Silver-Age Marvel Essentials trades are a good place to start if you're a new reader and interested in getting into superheroes. Although I've started reading that early stuff and it's mostly kinda dire for the first couple of years.

you can wind up blowing LOTS of money on graphic novels/nu-comix. I certainly did for a few years. so addictive. I had to stop. everytime a thread like this comes up it makes me want to blow $100 at the comic store down the street.

Well, fortunately for you, the entirety of western civilization is now available for illegal download.

At this point, that barely seems like an exaggeration.

I wouldn't recommend Watchmen to someone new to comics.

"The Last Man" is awesome, although I have to admit I don't like the idea of paying $10 for every book in the series.

Graphic novels are awesome.

I'm lucky in that my public library gets in like 90% of the graphic novels I've ever heard of.

Also, what is ASS? That's an acronym, right?

NEW YORK—Publisher Alfred A. Knopf, Inc. released a new Archie Comics graphic novel Tuesday, Heavy Is The Head That Wears The Crown, an examination of the complex inner workings of longtime Archie compatriot Forsythe "Jughead" Jones. "Readers will be fascinated by Forsythe's agonizing realization that his love of food was really just a substitute for loving himself, something he deems impossible due to his guilt over the premature death of his baby sister, Forsythia, and the predatory sexual overtures he suffers at the hands of Mr. Flutesnoot," author and cartoonist Adrian Tomine said. "The poignancy is further emphasized by the glimpses of Forsythe's future, as a divorced, self-doubting, alcoholic psychiatrist with an uncontrollable weight problem." A Knopf spokesman rejected allegations that the novel is nothing more than an apologia for the character's misogyny, saying that readers "will find the truth is rather more complicated."

ASS = All Star Superman. It was named in full when Deric first cited it.

While I agree that Watchmen isn't a good introduction to "serious" comics for someone who's neve read comics, I don't think the main problem for the ininitiated is that it is a "deconstruction of the superhero genre". This deconstruction isn't even the biggest theme in the comic, more important is Moore deconstruction of American politics of the era, and how the superheroes in the story stand in as symbols and vehicles of those politics. So anyone who has a basic knowledge of what superheroes are can understand that part. I think the harder thing is that Watchmen is so loaded with comic (meta)narrative tricks and techniques that it almost becomes saturated with them. So anyone who doesn't fully understand the language of comics is bound to miss the ridiculous amount of details Moore and Gibbons have put to Watchmen.

To take just one minor detail: the speech bubbles in the story change throughout the different decades it depicts, so the softer, more round bubbles of the 40's gradually become the sharper, more angular bubbles of the 80's. I think I'd read the comic four times before I even noticed this.

xpost

Just on Watchmen, I think it would work well as an early introduction to comics because it has nice art, interesting characters, and a multilayered narrative. I can't see the superhero thing being that much of a problem. Everyone is dimly aware of superheroes, but you don't have to read much of Watchmen to gather that this is not zap! bang! pow! territory.

and just on Tuomas' point about Watchmen metanarratice tricks etc.: it was probably ten years after reading Watchmen that I noticed any of theses, so I wouldn't worry about it.

xpost xpost and I've never noticed that thing about the speech bubbles... must go and re-read Watchmen. Why does all that kind of stuff count as something that makes Watchmen bad for new readers if most people never notice it?

tell me more watchmen metanarrative tricks i have a copy in my hand right now

Those comics by Joe Sacco ("Palestine", "Safe Area Gorazde", "The Fixer", and so on) are all entertaining and probably easy enough for a new reader, even if they are part of that ultimately problematic world of autobiographical comics.

I don't think it's the multilayered narrative aspect that would keep me from recommending Watchmen to a newcomer, it's the length. If they're really a newcomer to the comics form, I would start with a good anthology title with a wide variety of wrwiting and art styles, linear and nonlinear storytelling, humor and serious stories, etc. Specifically, the A1 anthology from Atomeka in 1989-1992. After they picked and chose their way through those six issues, I'd say "what worked for you and what didn't?" and give further recommendations from there.

I don't know. These new readers. We have to do everything for them, and what do we get back?

Coupons for free sexual favors?

also, I'd highly recommend "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud. The sequel to that is good, too.

I've always stayed away from that, on the basis that I don't need some know-all telling me how to understand comics. But maybe it is good for people who are new to the game.

I love Watchmen, I want to hear more of these metanarrative tricks too!

Understanding Comics is a good read for all people interested in comics as a medium. A lot of talk about the underlying structure of comics and whatnot. It's not altogether un-flawed, but it's interesting. And it's something that 90% of mainstream comics artists could highly benefit from reading and internalizing (insofar as learning to effectively tell a story with pictures is concerned).

Art classes would probably help them, as well.

You should read that book Vicar. It's fascinating, it's kind of layman's book but really some nice thinking and and an arty (comic!) approach that works much better than you would imagine. When you read that book you sort of start to realize the untapped potential of comics. Douglas Wolk, who posts around here from time to time, has a new book about comics that is good but it really just doesn't resonate like McCloud's does.

I thought I had posted to this thread a long time ago, but upon quickly browsing I can't see that I have...

Superhero:
Dan Slott's first volume of She-Hulk. (and he's going to be writing Amazing Spiderman Soon I think I read?)
Brubaker's Captain America.
Morrison's X-Men (Whedon's is alright too, but not as radical or innovative in terms of characterization, and not as densely plotted.) Also Morrison's Invisibles, Animal Man and Doom Patrol.
Moore's Swamp Thing, Tom Strong and, yes, Watchmen.
I'm NOT a huge Brian Michael Bendis fan, but I find his best work to be Daredevil (later continued by the maybe even better Brubaker) and also Ultimate Spiderman. I found Powers boring.
I think Batman Year One is better than Dark Knight Returns.
Marvel Essential Dr. Strange & X-Men volumes (with X-Men maybe start with the 2nd one, as the first isn't quite as excellent.)
All Star Superman (more Morrison.)
Warren Ellis's Ultimate Fantastic Four.

Non-Superhero:
Cerebus (at least through the first six volumes or so. Becomes increasingly bizarre thereafter with a lot of elements that are, let's say, non-Tuomas friendly.)
Fell by Warren Ellis (starts off great, losing a bit of steam recently in favor of lots of interrogation/talk-down kinda stuff. But worth reading, definitely.)
Gotham Central--I echo all recommendations of this. Volumes 1-3 especially, but it's all worth reading if you like those.
Tintin (In Tibet, The Calculus Affair, etc.)
We3 by Grant Morrison (animals!)
Planetary by Warren Ellis, also.
Gary Panter action. Jimbo in Purgatory = gorgeous, agreed.
Brian Chippendale's "Ninja." (mindblowing stuff, and I'm not just saying that as a Providence apologist/fanboy.)
Walking Dead loses a little steam when they first find the prison, but only wallows in soap opera territory briefly.
all the volumes of Kramer's Ergot I've been able to get my hands on have been fantastic. Various creator anthologies of alternative/psychedelic/indie comics (Panter, Chippenale, CF, Leif Goldberg, Elvis Studios, Matt Brinkman, and, oh, craploads of people whose names aren't coming to me right now. The guy who does the super-dense mutant/head/object conglomeration stuff; the Jimmy Corrigan guy... (who i don't really like)... uh, you know, and so on. Each volume is like 25 or 30 bucks but absolutely worth it.)
I'm blanking on the name of the writer/artist right now but 1-800-MICE has been cool. Dude's also been featured in Kramer's Ergot.
EC anthologies, especially the sci-fi ones. The horror books (Tales From The Crypt) always get the most recognition, it seems, but the sci-fi ones always got me more. Ray Bradbury did the plotting for a bunch of em.
Pekar & Crumb's "American Splendor" is good. A contemporary of theirs, Rory Hayes, has done a bunch of awesome stuff with psychedelic monsters and amorphous bodies and shit. Way rad.

I do not like Adrian Tomine. Or Jeffrey Brown, really, though "Be A Man" was kind of funny.

The guy who does the super-dense mutant/head/object conglomeration stuff
^ marc bell

Stuff I like that I don't think was mentioned above:

Superhero:
Kingdom Come
Marvels
Superman: Birthright
JLA: Tower of Babel
Batman: the Long Halloween, Dark Victory

Other:
The Middleman (I prefer volume 1, but they're both good)
Flight (all of these are pretty great)
Daisy Kutter: the Last Train
Whiteout (Rucka again)
Danger Girl
Hopeless Savages

Umm...

Was everything in my list mentioned above? It's possible.

"Man, I don't want to be a lesbian, all politics 24/7 and no sexy."

Yeah but the strip is making fun of Mo for that...

Confidential to jaymc: You would probably really like Watchmen.

Nope. They weren't. I don't know if all of them are "essential," per se, but a few of them definitely are.

I'm glad to see a couple of mentions now of David B.'s Epileptic

It is a graphic NOVEL in the geuine sense of the word, a huge, moving story with the most incredible graphics ever. I cried and cried at the end of it. I recommend it very highly.

Cerebus (at least through the first six volumes or so. Becomes increasingly bizarre thereafter with a lot of elements that are, let's say, non-Tuomas friendly.)

I saw this the other day and didn't pick it up cause I couldn't discern wtf was going on and there wasn't any kind of plot indicator on the book itself.

WTF is the plot of Cerebus?

There is an earthpig who is a barbarian. Then he gets into politics. Then he gets into religion. Then he goes to the moon and is told he will die alone and unloved. Then he goes back to earth and mopes. Then Oscar Wilde dies. Then the earthpig goes on a years long drinking spree. Then Dave Sim loses his mind and makes the book nigh-unreadable.

Between the politics and the drinking spree, it's really some of the best stuff there is.

I'm not an expert by ANY MEANS but I can vouch for a lot of the novels mentioned.

Currently enjoying Lady Snowblood immensely. Someone (on Librarything) said it was a guilty pleasure?!? Dude must have high standards, cause I think it's not really a guilty pleasure. Guess he thinks the nekkidness is a bit of GP or something. I love it because of the nakedness (duh!) but also because of the Japanese culture/history.

DMZ definitely seconded.

what about Seaguy? why is no one mentioning this?

I hated Seaguy.

But for people who like it a little rough, may I recommend Miller/Darrow's Hard Boiled.

yeah, i mentioned that upthread, especially re: the artwork. Amazing stuff.

> Currently enjoying Lady Snowblood immensely.

same writer as the (7000 page) Lone Wolf and Cub (am currently on book 6 of 28), Samurai Executioner, Crying Freeman et al - Kazuo Koike

spent the weekend re-reading Optic Nerve. am always annoyed with it when i finish any of the stories in a 'what happens next, i want to know' kind of way.

Seaguy's alright, but it's NOT morrison's finest work by any means. this may be because its lifespan was cut short and it remains unfinished.

Seaguy is pretty weird and sorta halfway there - I enjoyed it, but for anyone unfamiliar with comics it will be a total headscratcher.

Adrian Tomine is fucking horrible

re: Cerebus - the plot is really convoluted and will be impossible to follow if you start anywhere after High Society (Book 2, which is really where it starts to get interesting). The THEME of it, however, is generally power - the different forms of it, what it does to people, and how it is used. The rest is details (and yes, Sim did totally lose his mind - and the plot - somewhere around Book 9, altho there is still a fair amount of totally amazing artwork that followed)

Cerebus is also a kind of record/landmark in that it is the longest-running comic book penned (and written) by a single artist - it is the single largest graphic novel ever undertaken and completed, and encompasses (at various points) virtually the entire language and creative spectrum of comics.

Minor quibble: Gherard's backdrops are just as important as Sim's illustrations in terms of the book's general ambience.

i've avoided cerebus b/c i heard it was terribly misogynistic. should i get over that & read it anyway?

re: Gerhard, no argument there!

re: mysogny - it is quite clear in the book when Sim's mysogyny comes to the fore, and its somewhere around Book 8 or 9, I forget. Up to that point there's plenty about sexual politics, but nothing that makes it unreadable or inherently offensive. Its when Sim starts to speak - directly to the reader and practically out of nowhere - about how women control everything and men are all victims of their evil predatory ways that it goes to shit.