DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived Cleggeron era

Fuck a Falklands War and privatisation

Fuck the Falklands, in terms of her crimes, the Falklands is like bottom of the list, even if you include the Belgrano. Crappy TV drama on the Queen recently reminded me of Thatcher's support for the South African regime, which I'd forgotten about, and which the Queen was none too pleased about.

yeah. i kind of feel the intense cult of thatcher-hatred blinds people to present iniquities. iraq war a hell of a lot worse than the falklands war.

This is total bollocks. Who really criticises Thatcher for the Falklands? Who ever really did? Apart from Tam Dalyell?

PFI will never get the same visceral reaction as the privatisations did tho and yet in terms of public policy and the death of the welfare state I'm not sure which is worse.

Who really criticises Thatcher for the Falklands?

people do all the time

CRASS did for one thing

Eh Everybody criticises thatcher for the falklands?

CRASS did for one thing

Yes, that's the voice of the people right there. Believe me you are on the wrong track with that one.

I think there is a subset of people who will criticise her for conduct and manipulation of the Falklands War rather than pretending any other government would have acted much differently.

Eh Everybody criticises thatcher for the falklands?

No they don't. They didn't then much, OK Belgrano, a bit. Even less now.

Fuck the Falklands, in terms of her crimes, the Falklands is like bottom of the list, even if you include the Belgrano.

Oh I don't know, man. the Falklands is one thing that still really makes fucks me off bigstyle - our territory, inhabited by our fellow citizens gets invaded by a bunch of fascists, people who would dispose of their political enemies by disembowelling them and throwing them into the sea from helicopters, and that fucker was warned by US intelligence that it was going to happen, she did fuck all about it, then instead of doing the decent thing and resigning over her FAILURE, she fucking rode her military "victory" to a big, undeserved win in the following election, aided by the compliant, sycophantic tory press. I'm getting angry just typing this. Fucking hell.

really makes

OK yes, you're right about that, but is that what she usually gets criticised for "all the time"?

As we all know, another of her charming little peccadilloes was a fondness for, and friendship with, South American torturers and murderers

Yeah, her coziness with Pinochet is something that still disgust me now. inexcusable. (got v angry reading stuff relating to this in alan clarke's diaries back in the day)

yeah i was kind of joking about crass

here, though, is a more popular figure, ken livingstone, in 1998:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/piracy-has-always-driven-our-policy-in-the-falklands-1181057.html

What earthly reason possessed Britain to go to war over two remote islands, populated by just 2,000 people (half of whom were Ministry of Defence employees on general monitoring duties)? Although the rest of Europe looked on in bemused amazement at the gun-boat politics, here in Britain critics of the war were never in any doubt about just how small a minority of the British population we were representing.

that's pretty common currency imo

tho he says that during the 80s his anti-war position was uncommon so ehh i dunno

Ken Livingstone, Tam Dalyell, Tony Benn... uncommon currency I'd say. I'd forgotten the details of the preamble to the Falklands conflict and Thatcher's complacency, as outlined by Pash - but, I can't help but feel, that must say something because I'm, uh, not renowned for forgetting Thatcher's mistakes.

... commas all in the wrogn places there

The railways were privatised during the Major years iirc. multiple xposts

I opposed the Falklands war (I think I even went on a march about it, sooooo many marches back then...) and the Iraq war for much the same reason, both could have been avoided. It wasn't the majority view at the time but definitely a significant minority.

I'm not sure 'this war is unnecessary' was a minority view at any stage of the planned iraq invasion

that fucker was warned by US intelligence that it was going to happen, she did fuck all about it

i've never heard this line tbf, got a ref?

A million people did not march in opposition to the Falklands War. There's one difference.

No, I was talking about the Falklands, xp.

ah sorry ned i thought you were equating the level of opposition, misread your post.

our territory, inhabited by our fellow citizens gets invaded by a bunch of fascists

Note the difference between this from Pashmina and Ken Livingstone's criticism.

That's quite alright, xp.

Kinnock opposed the Falklands war as well iirc.

welsh don't like it up em

Think his argument was along the lines of 'who gives a fuck about a bunch of remote sheep farmers?'

nah that was scots independence surely?

Think his argument was along the lines of 'who gives a fuck about a bunch of remote sheep farmers?'

That was the undertone in some left wing circles - a nice lot, the 80's left

who were the 90's left?

that fucker was warned by US intelligence that it was going to happen, she did fuck all about it

i've never heard this line tbf, got a ref?

― postcards from the (ledge), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 13:29 (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OK, I'm not totally sure, so don't quote me on this, but I think it's in Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins book The Battle for the Falklands. At least Thatcher (and Carrington) had received advice from the UK security services about this.

who were the 90's left?

Me and Noodle Vague. Personally I started off on the right of Labour Party but as the entire country has shifted to the right I've ended up as some sort of wild-eyed left wing revolutionary

I spent the 90s drunk. But what else could you do?

learn to shuffle with the crowd, vital survival skill imo

That was the undertone in some left wing circles - a nice lot, the 80's left

Maybe the SWP but not Kinnock.

I mean Kinnock was nicer than the SWP.

I think Kinnock was too left wing for me!

I can speak for the 80s left and we were all very nice actually. Except the SWP. And the WRP. And Workers Power (splitters).

Kinnock started out on the Left but so did half of the PLP in the 80s. I was only a teenager when the Falklands War was on but there was plenty of implication in leftish circles that the Falklanders were oddballs for choosing to live there and they were all probably Tories so fuck 'em.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10442823.stm

This is the sort of shit that starts backlashes in unexpected places.

Home Secretary Theresa May told chiefs .... minimum standards and targets would be scrapped immediately.

Nice

Some horrible little thinktank accountancy spod was on Breakfast TV this morning crunching thru those numbers like there wasn't a human being attached to the jobs. He seemed very excited at the prospect of cuts.

It's OK, they're going "more with less" by sharing helicopters, apparently.

xp

yeah, but that's his job, tbf. that's why you have actual people in charge of accountants to blame for their actions.

i mean, kirk had to front for spock for instance

yeah, but that's his job, tbf. that's why you have actual people in charge of accountants to blame for their actions.

I think you're missing the point, he's a thinktank accountant, not one who actually lives + works in the real world with real people

oh yeah, i know some real accountants, they're not the worst.

Yeah I was gonna exclude the A word, but tbh whatever you do if your job is sacking people and you enjoy it then f you imo