DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived Cleggeron era

Whilst agreeing that some kind of affirmative action is probably necessary to improve inequalities in the Parliamentary demographic, it's pretty obvious that unscrupulous party leaders have used things like all-women shortlists to impose a certain kind of MP onto irritated constituencies. Mind you, they also did it with that Tory tosser with the butler who defected to NuLab so god knows tbh

most capable women are probably too smart to go into politics.

though that stands for both genders, maybe.

oh boy

but yeah tbh fuck quotas for reals. short term solutions to a long term problem

think class is the fundamental issue in play

So quotas to get working class people into politics?

i'm going to try and stay away from this but i hear this sort of thing a lot - "but (x) is just a band-aid - we need a cultural shift to solve this problem" - well, cultural shifts can take decades. centuries, if no one actually does anything but wait around for it to happen. in the meantime entire lives are lived.

quotas can help with that cultural shift, though. a 50-50 parliament would quickly be seen by most ppl as normal, regardless of how it came about.

i dunno, i think you'd find a pretty sustained attack on the affirmative action mps from certain quarters.

So quotas to get working class people into politics?

― I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:12 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is exactly what im not saying. don't think upping the number of working-class people in parliament would lead to a big ideological shift, which is what's needed. it wouldn't hurt, necessarily, but look at the people who would be implementing the quotas, and how they would operate them. all of this sort of thing is a step away from politics as such. and up to a point im not sure that there is such a thing as a "working-class MP" any more than there is a "working-class lawyer".

xp to tracer

yeah, it's obvious that change in the end result is necessary, and it would be better if it was a swift process, and, also obviously, any contribution to the debate from the hairy side is gonna be dismissed along the lines of 'as a gender-group net beneficiary, you should't get a say', as above.

and i can see, definitely and unambiguously, where that is coming from too- left to the group in power, change in distribution of power is not a natural process.

but i still don't think determining the end result in advance is the desirable or best way to lead this kind of change.

don't think upping the number of working-class people in parliament

AKA voting Labour, if we're being honest about it

Tho, "working class" LOL amirite?

Attlee was educated at Northaw School, a boys' preparatory school near Pluckley in Kent (which in 1952 was relocated and named Norman Court School), followed by Haileybury College, a famous boarding school in Hertford Heath near Hertford in Hertfordshire, followed by University College at the University of Oxford, where he graduated with a Second Class Honours BA in Modern History in 1904. Attlee then trained as a lawyer, and was called to the Bar in 1906.[3]

this is kind of what miliband pere's book is about, but, no, simply putting people w/ working-class parents into parliament does not result (necessarily) in a much fairer deal for working class people outside it

What was the point of posting that bit about Attlee?

John Prescott says what he likes and he likes what he bloody well says[4]

this is kind of what miliband pere's book is about, but, no, simply putting people w/ working-class parents into parliament does not result (necessarily) in a much fairer deal for working class people outside it

Indeed, I'm not arguing for it

... for any sort of quota that is

aight, got wrong end of stick

the labour candidates are keeping pretty quiet about the budget

Balls was on Newsnight last night chattin' about it... for about two minutes. Paxo seemed to want rid of him.

the labour candidates are keeping pretty quiet about the budget

Dave M put a wee article in the Mirror

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/06/22/david-miliband-the-poor-are-going-to-be-hit-hardest-by-george-osborne-s-emergency-budget-115875-22352636/

180 words - these are truly austere times.

Ed B wrote some more, also for the Mirror. Does anyone read the Mirror?

http://www.edballs4labour.org/blog/?p=207

dunno about his numbers but otherwise this is v well put

"How can the Liberals support a Budget which puts 100,000 more people out of work while raising the only tax that the unemployed have to pay?"

Fuck the Unemployed is the Coalition's answer to that. New Politics innit.

pretty good in opposition, labour, eh?

They're not doing much but they're not doing badly. Whole shebang's not really kicked off properly yet.

It will probably take 6-9 months for the new, higher figures of unemployed and smaller to no growth to come in. By that time there will be a new leader and shadow cabinet in place.

also obviously, any contribution to the debate from the hairy side is gonna be dismissed along the lines of 'as a gender-group net beneficiary, you should't get a say', as above

FFS I'm not talking about my actual WOMB here; TBH the hairy side has had 6000 years of leveraging its advantage through religion and law, unfettered for the most part, until some pesky women demanded education and property and voting rights 150 years ago. By any means necessary kind of works for me when I look at it on a page like this. You get a say, but people/women might mention a few mitigating factors you just need to accept, or they'll do that thing where they go OK and move on without you, and THEN WHO HAS THE PHALLUS? Not you.

Class is problematic because there is an expectation of class shift or treatment of others on all sides as we progress through certain strands of education or careers, or do not.

HM's point w/Attlee is that it's not where you're from, it's where you're at - some people use their educational advantages to bring better things to the less advantaged around them and we don't make enough of that, generally, as a good thing to do in our culture (and I don't mean stuff like sending little Sophie to build toilets in the Amazon on her gap year).

:) i knew this was all about stealing our phallusses tbh

screen names too good to miss

LOLLLLL...

Story breaking:

Culture secretary Jeremy Hunt has apologised to Liverpool fans for comments suggesting that football hooliganism played a role in the Hillsborough disaster.

... this guy's name is rhyming slang

Attacks on the poor, the disabled, the Scouser... it's the 80s all over again!

What did he actually say? This story talks a lot about the outrage at his comments, but doesn't actually say what his comments were beyond He praised the England fans at the 2010 World Cup saying the "terrible problems" of "Heysel and Hillsborough in the 1980s seem now to be behind us".

Ah, The Guardian's a bit clearer on this:
Hunt made his remark in an interview in which he was answering questions about England's poor performance in the World Cup.

He said he was "incredibly encouraged by the example set by the England fans. I mean, not a single arrest for a football-related offence, and the terrible problems that we had in Heysel and Hillsborough in the 1980s seem now to be behind us".

January 2009:

Tory MP Robert Goodwill, the shadow minister for Leeds, said: ‘While it is important for Cabinet ministers to visit Yorkshire and find out about particular issues, holding the Cabinet meeting here was a bit of a gimmick.

‘I can understand them wanting to show their presence in Yorkshire for political reasons. But the cost of hosting it, given the increased security, is something that should be borne by Labour rather than taxpayers.’

The Cabinet is expected in Yorkshire today for the first meeting of the new coalition outside of London. Prime Minister David Cameron and his cabinet will later tour the region which was chosen because of its industrial heartlands. Local Government Minister Eric Pickles, a former Bradford Council leader, said too much wealth and prosperity has been focused on the south and other parts of the country have been neglected and left behind.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/survey-puts-liberal-democrats-popularity-at-postelection-low-2013052.html

Tories up, LibDems down. It's all going to plan.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Liberal-Democrat-Principles-/110552679620?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item19bd7404c4#ht_500wt_1154

The party now has 49 per cent support among the over-65s and is ahead of Labour in every age group apart from 18 to 24 year olds. It has achieved a marked increase in support among 25 to 34 year olds, chiefly at the expense of the Liberal Democrats.

shaking my head at my age group - hello, being halfway through this age range, I know at least half of you remember Thatcher
(and surely all remember the types of people who were still Tory in the late 90s - do you really want to be those people?)

though it is pleasing that 18-24y/os who presumably do not remember the 1980s (the hair was crap / the claithes were crap) are still less Tory, had expected the last decade of nulab + little to no memory of anything previous to have the opposite effect

Pretty sure that it's an age-old rule that owning more stuff as you hit mid-30's will have a negative affect on yr left wing ideology.

Only if you're a tosser iirc

yeah, i got nothing but contempt for the idea myself. i was born a right wing hardnut tbh

Money is shit to me.

shaking my head at my age group - hello, being halfway through this age range, I know at least half of you remember Thatcher

nah, im thirty-ish too, and i don't think most ppl my age can properly remember the thatcher era. not in a meaningful way. she got the old heave-ho when i was 10. can remember the major era p well.

money can't buy you hate

i have a visceral anti-thatcher thing, but it's much much more to do with where i'm from than remembering it, which i can't.

spent the 80s drunk you see

^ growing up working class, see the vices ingrained?