Ken vs. Boris: It's So On

Not trying to start a fight, but that doesn't seem like much of a reason to vote for anybody. Straw was supposed to be some raving Lefty in the 60s, god help us.

The memories I have of ken from growing up in hackney in the 80s make it seem like he was fighting a lefty battle of rourkes drift against the spear waving thatcherite hordes.

I was definitely a Livingstone fan in the 80s. Perhaps the most relevant thing to the mayor's job I could say about him now is that you feel that he really does love London, which isn't a vibe you get from BJ.

no ken was always basically a shapeshifting pragmatist, very very shrewd -- possibly the greatest "politician" (good and bad senses) of our age (since wilson maybe? but wilson leaned on the power of his party a lot more, and in the end achieved less*, and did a lot more harm to it: ken worked with a lot less heft behind him -- the more i think about this, the more i think he actually held back the tide of generic anti-labour voting on thursday, just not enough... no wonder he looked so tired and wan last night, he was shafted by brown's haplessness and the deep damage blair's done the party)

*this depends a bit on how much of ken's achievement on transport survives -- if none, then his achievement will be spectral also

This is fucking shocking shite from the BBC.

But disaster loomed again, when a tape surfaced of an old Oxford friend Darius Guppy, who had been convicted of fraud, asking him to help locate a witness.

Hmm. Locate a witness? Or provide an address so someone could be beaten up to warn them off Guppy?

But the best bit was:

His headmaster at the school which Prince William and Prince Harry were later to attend, Sir Eric Anderson, was also Tony Blair's housemaster during his schooldays at Fettes - often dubbed the Scottish Eton. Sir Eric could spot similarities between the two future politicians."Both of them opted to live on their wits rather than preparation," he told Mr Johnson's biographer, Andrew Gimson.
"They both enjoyed performing. In both cases people found them life-enhancing and fun to have around, but also maddening." But unlike Mr Blair, Mr Johnson did not rebel against the system.

WTF? Blair? Rebel? The person who wrote this - Brian Wheeler - is a fuck cockhead of the highest order. It's a disgrace of a piece.

His academic records prove him to have powerful intellect,

Boris started as he means to go on by nearly falling over, tripping on the scenery, as he started his first press conference.

The last post from Mark S there absolutely correct. Would Ken have served his own interests better by remaining outside the Labour party throughout his two terms? He may have won last night if he had, imo.

Today, I've found myself suddenly remembering that this has happened over and over: " . . Oh, shit!"

Had the same experience when Major got back in.

post-poptimism thort:
what are the economics against decent after-midnight transport for (hip young) londoners (ie not me obv -- i was home by 11.50 -- but some of you)?

can boris lock in the ultra-young "post-ideological" vote by delivering this? (am assuming there is a post-binge-britain dimension to this discussion which even phantom-libertarian boris will have to pay mind to) (<--- haha a old person too-often kept awake by noisy boozy youngsters writes)

The only city with true 24 rail transport is new york and new york can do it because It has a lot of 3 and 4 track lines so trains can be diverted for maintenance. The tube has to shut down overnight as there is no way of closing off sections for maintenance whilst still keeping the system running in dome form.

Night buses have been improving over the last 8 years, although I suspect that improvement is restricted to inner London .

haha "dome form" <--- only too true

The Paris metro runs til around 2am on weekends.

Running till 2am on weekends is well within the realm of possibility, but would be expensive, should be done though.

no! clubbers must take one for the anti-boris team

more express night buses

my Dad thinks the result had more to do with who was most entertaining than party politics

your dad is part of the problem

Ken would still have lost against Boris as an independent, there would have been another Labour candidate in there splitting the vote, plus there were very Ken-centric charges made against him.

entertainment/novelty was #1 reason for voting boris, is the impression i get

That'd be why Labour did so strongly elsewhere on Thursday?

... is dissapointed with all londners, i mean boris really?
... says chin up Londoners, let's all have a revolution.
... is wondering how stupid people can be! Boris??!! You fools!
... thinks London is 42.48% full of cunts.
... is very proud of London. (I think this one is sarcastic)
... thinks all the whiney fucks complaining about Boris are middle-class working-class wannabes. Stay out of my city.
... thinks you voted for Boris
... aaaaargh not boris - what the fuck is going on in london.
... is now thinking of staying in brighton.
... is not thrilled about having Boris as mayor.
... is thinking of moving.
... is gutted.
... voted for Ken, it's not his fault.

seriously i think entertainment/novelty is QUITE A LOW-RANKING REASON: much more relevant are -- in no special order -- general country-wide vote against labour/brown (re economy), vote "for change", vote re transport issues (suburbs vs inner city -- see ed's map upthread), vote re (euphemism alert) "multi-cultural issues" (also possibly suburbs vs inner city) (tho as i said before i'm not an expert on the cultural demographics of the satellites and the burbs and may be talkin bollox on this one)

of much more minor import: specific gilligan/enrique-esque anti-ken stuff (lee jasper, hugging islamist hoodies, "anti-semitism"); the "boris is fun" factor; bendy buses

general country-wide vote against labour/brown (re economy)

that's the trouble with being met-elite - it's hard to imagine enough people voting against Lab as opposed to just 'hurrah the Tories are credible again', if you know what i mean (if we're saying Labour picked up that many votes under Blair from people who would normally vote Con)

really tho, how many voted Ken last time and Boris this time?

bit muddled there i know - presumably more votes 'against ken' this time from people who didn't vote last time (more than votes 'against boris' surely)

Chap, if they're status updates of your mates then we have a mutual f-book friend (the second one on your list).

What has obviously made the specific gilligan anti-ken stuff more effective is the apparent lack of anything pro-Ken anywhere. As far as I could make out, absolutely nobody stuck their neck out and said 'weeeell, you have to vote for this guy or you get boris'. Just a simple 'don't vote boris'.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/boris.jpg

What will Gilligan do for an encore? And how will he be rewarded for his toadying?

http://borisjohnsonfacts.com/

Chap, if they're status updates of your mates then we have a mutual f-book friend (the second one on your list).

Lou1s B@ym@n?

The very one. One of those people who reassures me London will stay sane...

Hah, small world. You weren't at his bbq last weekend by any chance, were you? (Sorry to use this thread for personal shit)

Had to miss it cos I had a shitload of work to do and my husband (the reason I know LB) was in Dusseldorf. I'll see if I can pick you out at the next one (if this weather sticks there'll be another). My initials are AW if I'm showing up on his friends list.

But yeah, sorry, Boris, hate him etc.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/andrew-gilligan-it-was-not-the-standard-wot-won-it-for-boris-821013.html

this guy seems douchey sorry friends

Good news. Perhaps BJ will give him a job?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7385370.stm

Got to love the way middle class liberals automatically assume everyone who votes BNP is working class. Arseholes.

The part of London where the B*P got the biggest share of the vote is possibly the poorest though, TomD.

Hari still a cunt, for now and always, of course.

Funny but Barnbrook and Griffin don't seem too working class to me. I'm guessing that if they had the money to campaign in middle class areas as vigorously and intensively as they do in poorer areas they would get plenty of votes there too.

The BNP vote is pretty much uniformly working class though Tom D, and it always has been. There's a reason the BNP break through in Bradford and not Harrogate.

You mean the fact that everyone in Harrogate is white and the BNP don't bother campaigning there?

If you're middle class and racist, you vote UKIP not BNP.

Plus qf 70s trade unionists wearing "Enoch Was Right" badges.

You vote Tory surely? (xp)

OK then, devil's advocate: what are the main differences between the thought processes of someone who votes UKIP and BNP? Try to answer without "there are no thought processes at play" zinging.

Bonus points for incorporating the English Democrats into your answer.

Funny but Barnbrook and Griffin don't seem too working class to me.

Barnbrook is. Griffin isn't.

Obviously, there are many, many petit bourgeois small business types who harbour fascist ideas (not a coincidence that Thatcher was the grocer's daughter) and many of these work at the heart of the BNP's electoral organisation but it can't be denied that there are larger groups of "ethnic" population in poorer areas, and so the BNP are going to target those areas. Not much point campaigning about an "immigrant threat" in Esher where there is nary a black or Asian face to be seen.

UKIP bit of a one-trick pony isn't it?

xpost Dom

UKIP put more emphasis on an anti-Europe position rather than an anti-immigration/ straight out racist stance.

UKIP also struck me, tbh, as more of a checks-and-balance party on the Conservatives, ie "Go back to your 90s position on Europe and lose part of your vote to us".

I need to pay more attention to UK politics