"Maybe there's a morals clause in Dorothy's contract in case she does something filthy and disgusting. The problem is, I can't think of anything filthy and disgusting you haven't already done."
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 22:34 (fourteen years ago) link
it's pretty amazing how concentrated & fast moving this is compared to what it would be like if it were made now. i have to say i like the film and i find it funny but the fact it's so distilled removes some of the verisimilitude that would help you buy into the situation. in no way am i wishing the film were an hour longer (as it would be now) but it needs a little more imo, especially in the initial stages.
― jed_, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:11 (fourteen years ago) link
The first hour and fifteen is the best, especially the pre-Dorothy moments!
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:32 (fourteen years ago) link
One of my favorite lines ever, from Murray: "That is one nutty hospital." Deserves to be a famous as Some Like It Hot's final line.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:35 (fourteen years ago) link
What's odd is how Michael Dorsey becomes Dorothy no questions asked.
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:36 (fourteen years ago) link
George Gaynes' last line is just as good: "Does Jeff know?"
I think retelling that story about my parents calling the cops on that guy put me in a foul mood all the rest of the day. I didn't realize how deeply angry this incident still makes me!
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:41 (fourteen years ago) link
Wait...wrong thread. SOrry.
from Bill Murray's drunken American Indian monologue?
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:43 (fourteen years ago) link
A beautifully surreal detour...To answer your original question, an absolute classic. I think my two favorite "mainstream" films (whatever that means) of the past 30 years--certainly my favorite comedies--are Tootsie and Broadcast News. I never tire of either. George Gaynes, Coleman, Teri Garr, they're all fantastic. I'm laughing just thinking of the way Garr says "Will I ever see you again?" after she and Hoffmann have sex.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:49 (fourteen years ago) link
"Sex changes things" (looks curiously at her breasts under the cover).
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:54 (fourteen years ago) link
I still think that first half hour or so has the most accurate depiction of struggling actors/writers/whatever in a big city i've ever seen; doing shitty jobs, going to reads, having parties, getting nowhere and waiting for a break and suchlike. Going back to it a few years ago i realised i'd forgotten all that section because of the farce/ romance/ etc stuff that comes after.
― piscesx, Thursday, 17 June 2010 00:22 (fourteen years ago) link
it's so distilled removes some of the verisimilitude that would help you buy into the situation
Jesus God.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 June 2010 00:26 (fourteen years ago) link
Pretty good essay.
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 April 2011 18:51 (thirteen years ago) link
for some reason i was convinced for years that ed o'neill was in this movie
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Thursday, 7 April 2011 18:53 (thirteen years ago) link
better before dorothy comes along?
It's a pretty creepy stunt for everyone to just get over in the last five mins, i may be asking too much.
― Darranzhi MacKhakhala (darraghmac), Monday, 4 July 2011 21:59 (twelve years ago) link
The writing and acting are so sharp that the Dorothy stuff works on its own: huffy soap actress falls for young costar.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 July 2011 22:18 (twelve years ago) link
maybe, but i agree with upthread comment- traded punchiness for sentimentality with the emergence of the 'love story' angle.
Teri Garr and Pollock were great in their roles, picked it up whenever they appeared
― Darranzhi MacKhakhala (darraghmac), Monday, 4 July 2011 22:42 (twelve years ago) link
ha that's not to say the leads let it down, obviously.
― Darranzhi MacKhakhala (darraghmac), Monday, 4 July 2011 22:44 (twelve years ago) link
I constantly go around saying, "This is a coast too, George. New York is a coast."
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 July 2011 22:50 (twelve years ago) link
yeah the throwaways were a cut above alright
― Darranzhi MacKhakhala (darraghmac), Monday, 4 July 2011 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
The Les-Dorothy exchanges underrated.
DURNING: Another drink?
DOROTHY: No -- I have to keep my wits about me tonight.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 March 2012 13:15 (twelve years ago) link
Man he sure is a jerk to Sandy!
― Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, 6 May 2012 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
I liked this from an interview w/Terri Garr:
Tootsie (1982)—"Sandy Lester"
TG: I just saw that again recently. I hadn't seen it in twentysomething years. And it's the same thing! Pretty, nice girls being taken advantage of by slimy men. They put a man in a dress, and he's supposed to know what it feels like to be a woman. But of course he doesn't. I think what Dustin [Hoffman] says is, "I realize now how important it is for a woman to be pretty. And I wasn't pretty." God! That's all you realized? Jesus Christ. Oh well. Don't quote me. Actually, quote me.
AVC: You play this very neurotic character who's full of self-loathing, who's desperate for attention, yet somehow, she's sweet and likeable. Was all that indicated in the script, or was that something you brought to the role?
TG: I think that's something that I was or am. Likeable? I guess, yeah. But neurotic, yes. It was right at that time in history when feminism was rearing its ugly head, so I read all these books like The Second Sex, and that's where I got that line, "I know I'm responsible for my own orgasm." [Laughs.] I read that sentence and I thought, "What does that mean?" I didn't even know. I thought that [Sandy] was caught between trying to have a career and trying to be a sexual woman, and it just doesn't work. At least it didn't in that movie, because it was made by sexist men. I can say that now, because Sydney [Pollack] isn't with us anymore. [Laughs.] But he was a fine director.
AVC: But you thought he was sexist?
TG: Oh, yeah! I think so. He just wanted the beautiful, blond, cute, shiksa girls to be nice and shut the fuck up! [Laughs.] God, I'm bad. But that's what he wanted. And that's what the world wants, I think. I'm bitter. Bitter!
― Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, 6 May 2012 19:58 (twelve years ago) link
I mean Sandy's a real dipdy-doo in the movie, begging for Seconal after a bad party, but it kinda made me mad that the script lets Hoffman be the only woman in the movie with her wits about her. I liked the movie, it's funny, blah blah my feminist this 1983 just called.
― Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, 6 May 2012 20:00 (twelve years ago) link
Also Dustin Hoffman was a hot dude back in the day! Straw DOgs kinda made me forget that bcz of how loathsome he was in it.
― Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, 6 May 2012 20:01 (twelve years ago) link
Michael does treat Sandy shabbily but it's to the script and Garr's credit that she's awesome anyway.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 6 May 2012 20:08 (twelve years ago) link
Hilarious interview, by the way. She's otm about Lange getting nominated in the wrong category.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 6 May 2012 20:11 (twelve years ago) link
"What a good idea, a socket for a plug."
― Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Monday, 7 May 2012 03:21 (twelve years ago) link
xpost yeah that was unfair, but tptb felt that Lange was due for an award, and knew that Streep was a shoo-in for Best Actress, so...
nostalgia: this was the last movie our family (parents, 10yo sister and myself) all went out and saw together. my sister was particularly delighted with Murray's "You slut!" and the cattle-prod line.
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:09 (twelve years ago) link
Teri Garr on fire all through that interview! She was a doll on "Sonny & Cher" too, even w/ the often crappy writing.
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:54 (twelve years ago) link
this is kind of amazing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPAat-T1uhE
― some dude, Sunday, 7 July 2013 20:05 (ten years ago) link
the Terri Garr quote a few posts up seems like kind of a retort to possibly when Hoffman said something similar in simpler terms (or maybe she's simplifying/paraphrasing), but still, I like how he puts it there.
― some dude, Sunday, 7 July 2013 20:08 (ten years ago) link
whoa! I wasn't expecting that last line.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 July 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
I've expressed my love for the film many times. That clip's a little hard to watch in its Bobby Bittmanesque "As a comic, Sammy, in all seriousness"...I'm sure Hoffman's quite sincere in what he says, which is maybe part of why the film's so good: he was making one movie while everybody else worked around him making another.
― clemenza, Sunday, 7 July 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
wow hoffamn rocks there!
― i lost my shoes on acid (jed_), Sunday, 7 July 2013 21:18 (ten years ago) link
I remember seeing that clip when the AFI ran their list show. I think he added something like "I know it's a comedy, but comedy is serious business."
― the evening dj there (Eric H.), Sunday, 7 July 2013 21:32 (ten years ago) link
I saw this film once, during its initial release, in a theater. Not since then. My only impression of it was that it was moderately funny, but not hilarious, and the so-called pro-feminist message in it was so watered down, so shallow, so reductionist, that it seemed no different than any other over-hyped mainstream Hollywood movie. But at the time I still had a few intellectual bones in my body. Maybe today I'd laugh like a jackass.
― Aimless, Monday, 8 July 2013 04:24 (ten years ago) link
tbh i've never even watched this movie, i just liked that DH interview
― some dude, Monday, 8 July 2013 10:49 (ten years ago) link
movie is great. DH clip is amazing, too.
― Puff Daddy, whoever the fuck you are. I am dissapoint. (stevie), Monday, 8 July 2013 10:58 (ten years ago) link
But at the time I still had a few intellectual bones in my body. Maybe today I'd laugh like a jackass.
haha this shouldn't be a binary
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 8 July 2013 11:02 (ten years ago) link
― Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, May 6, 2012 11:21 PM
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 September 2013 02:25 (ten years ago) link
http://s3.amazonaws.com/criterion-production/release_boxshots/4305-a10b1e1d36f0c145bdcbc75901960037/738_BD_box_348x490_original.jpg
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Friday, 15 August 2014 20:27 (nine years ago) link
this movie is a difficult-to-take mix of reactionary and self-congratulatory, even though it's obvious from the clip above that hoffman's heart, at least, was in the right place. but it's hard to knock the craft with which it was made, by all concerned. for whatever that's worth (less than i'd sometimes like to admit).
― I dunno. (amateurist), Saturday, 16 August 2014 10:49 (nine years ago) link
The last scene with Lange was the only one that played self-congratulatory. The other moments of revelation Hoffman and Pollack (literally -- as actors) undercut.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 16 August 2014 11:35 (nine years ago) link
Also: it's obvious to me that Michael Dorsey and Julie have no chemistry; the last scene played like a gay man becoming buddies with a woman, whereas Dorothy and Julie connected immediately, which Julie acknowledges ("I miss Dorothy").
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 16 August 2014 11:37 (nine years ago) link
Hoffman's performance when he meets up with Charles Durning in the bar near the end as Michael.. an acting masterclass right there. i think if *that* scene doesn't work then the whole thing would be wrecked but it's amazing.
― piscesx, Saturday, 16 August 2014 12:31 (nine years ago) link
BR of this should be good! I find the story of the scriptwriting meltdown behind this pretty fascinating. Also in beautiful 4k so Dustin Hoffman can mourn the true depths of Dorothy's pores.
― when you call my name it's like a prickly pear (Crabbits), Saturday, 16 August 2014 17:18 (nine years ago) link
I wish I could find the sketchbook from the time when I got really obsessed with trying to draw Dorothy.
― when you call my name it's like a prickly pear (Crabbits), Saturday, 16 August 2014 17:22 (nine years ago) link
"I wish Dorothy were prettier."
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 16 August 2014 17:24 (nine years ago) link
"How do you feel about Cleveland?"
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Saturday, 16 August 2014 17:27 (nine years ago) link
"I owe myself a quarter."
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 16 August 2014 17:30 (nine years ago) link
I liked this movie best at a sneak screening the week before it came out
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 16 August 2014 17:58 (nine years ago) link
true cred right there
― I dunno. (amateurist), Saturday, 16 August 2014 19:14 (nine years ago) link
Criterion Blu-Ray out next week:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Tootsie-Blu-ray/44344/#Review
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 December 2014 13:07 (nine years ago) link
"*with* the necktie?"
― piscesx, Thursday, 11 December 2014 14:39 (nine years ago) link
Excellent review in the current Cineaste of this amusing, sexually reactionary, incredibly overrated film.
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 14:56 (nine years ago) link
and My Man Godfrey solves the problem of homelessness by opening a swank nightclub on the city dump for the entertainment of the white plutocrats who put'em there – get over it.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 15:00 (nine years ago) link
Hollywood's innovation is to emasculate comedy's subversive power, and even then Tootsie got a convincing lesbian crush onscreen.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 15:01 (nine years ago) link
MMG did not posture as socially significant.
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 17:49 (nine years ago) link
mmg was funny all the way through tootsie dies as soon as the wig goes on
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 17:51 (nine years ago) link
referring to OP, "last great studio comedy" is a bizarre statement, given that
1) tootsie has its charms but is by no means great
2) there have been quite a few excellent studio comedies in the past 30+ years. groundhog day is an obvious one that comes to mind.
― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 17:53 (nine years ago) link
Murray the star of both
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 17:54 (nine years ago) link
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac),
crazy talk
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 18:06 (nine years ago) link
yeah, dmac doesn't get Hoffdrag
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 18:07 (nine years ago) link
guilty but proud
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 March 2015 20:55 (nine years ago) link
Sex changes things. I've had relationships where I know a guy, then have sex with, and then I bump into him and he acts like I loaned him money.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 26 December 2018 14:26 (five years ago) link
guessing Elaine May wrote that line
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 December 2018 15:11 (five years ago) link
Yup. She wrote most of Teri Garr's stuff.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 26 December 2018 15:12 (five years ago) link
the stage musical is imminent! set on Broadway rather than a soap.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 18:03 (five years ago) link
The NYT review is almost a rave. "Sparkles with wit"! Only the staging is flat, Jesse Green writes, and they push the feminism a little too hard (who could've predicted).
I did laugh at the summary of the show within the show, a sequel to Romeo & Juliet.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:28 (five years ago) link