New James Bond = Daniel Craig.

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how would a whip work?

Indiana Jones and The Trussed-Up Agent

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 November 2006 21:16 (nineteen years ago)

Are the Bond novels a worthy read? I've always heard them written off as terrible fiction but the new editions look awfully good (I firmly believe you can judge a book by its cover).

milo z (mlp), Saturday, 4 November 2006 21:18 (nineteen years ago)

Are the Bond novels a worthy read?

I'm not going to defend them down to the last word or anything, but I always thought Fleming's own wonderfully biased statement of intent -- "I have no messages for suffering humanity... they are written for warm-blooded heterosexuals in trains, plains or, in bed" -- sums up what they are. Colin Wilson, a somewhat curious man in general, did I think capture what Fleming was about with the title of his study of UK mystery/thriller authors -- Snobbery With Violence. That applies to Fleming's work perfectly, but as I muttered above, it's tempered by two great gifts -- his sense of pace and tension and Bond-as-patriotic-antihero.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 November 2006 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

I liked Casino Royale and The Spy Who Loved Me, which doesn't involve any worldwide spy stuff, just a mentally and physically exhausted Bond having to pull his shit together to deal with a several-against-one dispute he gets caught up in by accident. Also, sort of unusually, it's told from the POV of the female lead, the damsel whose rescue Bond comes to.

Django Blowhardt (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 4 November 2006 21:33 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, The Spy Who Loved Me is a very interesting experiment in the context of the series, his only break-from-the-formula. Notoriously, it was the one novel that Fleming specified could NOT be made into a film, due to how poorly it was received by his readership -- though the title was okay to use, resulting in the partial remake of You Only Live Twice (film version) that the cinematic Spy is.

If I had to pick any of the books offhand -- Casino Royale (the first one, no 'preset' ideas of Bond even in Fleming's mind, a very black ending all around), Moonraker (first full-on megalomaniac supervillian, plays with the idea of one last Nazi counterattack in the atomic age, and actually has my favorite sequence in all the books, Bond exposing Drax at cheating at cards), and On Her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice (last fully revised and completed Bond novels before Fleming's death, obsessed with mortality and vengeance, and very much meant to be considered as two parts of an overarching story of love and revenge).

For sheer description, any of the Bond books set in Jamaica or the Caribbean -- Live and Let Die, Doctor No and Thunderball -- are probably the best. That was the area Fleming loved most in the world and it shows (though you could spend a year unpacking all the colonial assumptions in each book).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 November 2006 21:36 (nineteen years ago)

it's a carpet beater you idiot -- how would a whip work?

-- mark s (mar...), Yesterday 8:52 PM. (mark s) (later)

trust me, it works :(

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 4 November 2006 21:44 (nineteen years ago)

the jb paperback covers in the uk were famous for their neat series design, in the 60s and 70s: over several successive reprints, with new design-theme ideas each time

my favourite was probably thunderball, which had a naked back with two bullet-holes in it, which were cut right throgh the cover

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 4 November 2006 23:39 (nineteen years ago)

this is first ever i think:

http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/articles/images/literary_casino_royale1.jpg

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 4 November 2006 23:43 (nineteen years ago)

http://thetrashcollector.bizland.com/Books/BookFromRussiaWithLoveUK23.jpg

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 4 November 2006 23:45 (nineteen years ago)

this is the same series the bulletholes was in

http://img.tfd.com/thumb/c/cb/YouOnlyLiveTwiceNovel.jpg

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 4 November 2006 23:48 (nineteen years ago)

there was a later series i can't find any evidence of on the net -- but seem to have lots of, which means it must have been around the mid-70s, when i wz readin them as 1xteen

they have a bunch of objects from the story -- like "man w/golden gun" has a golden gun, some banknotes, a watch, a scooped stilton, a snakeskin, a cork thing i can't identify, and a pic of the girly du jour -- all tumbled together and beautifully lit and photographed

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 4 November 2006 23:59 (nineteen years ago)

http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/0d/bc/32757220eca06ada48446010.L.jpg

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 5 November 2006 00:03 (nineteen years ago)

jere we go:
http://www.thrillermagazine.it/imgbank/RUBRICHE/thunderball.jpg

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 5 November 2006 00:06 (nineteen years ago)

not as good as i remember it but i was like 12:
http://www.nireland.com/goldeneye/fleming/thunder.jpg

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 5 November 2006 00:08 (nineteen years ago)

> To me he looks too "rough" and weathered to play Bond.

I've been hearing this a lot. It seems like a small concession to the realities of espionage. Who makes a better spy, a heartbreaker or an weathered average-looking bloke? I wonder if the new bond film will take a "back to basics" approach and more closely approximate the novels, which, although fantastical, had Bond engage in at least some espionage instead of just shooting it out with bad guys.

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Sunday, 5 November 2006 03:49 (nineteen years ago)

Mark S, that is the very version of Thunderball that my parents had. Oh, the memories.

I never read it though. Stinky pages.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Sunday, 5 November 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

The books are great reads. Nasty, unsentimental, misogynistic pieces of work, but thrillingly plotted with a real sense of (post war) time and place and dark comedy.

Casino Royale has one of the greatest opening lines in any fiction ever.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 5 November 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

Which is of course...The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 5 November 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

the trailer looks great. honestly tho I don't think I've ever seen a bond movie in the the-ater

If you fuck with Jimmy Mod, you call down the thunder (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Sunday, 5 November 2006 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

I believe I've seen every Bond since The Living Daylights in the theater.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Sunday, 5 November 2006 16:18 (nineteen years ago)

I've seen all of them since License to Kill, even though they got progressively worse after GoldenEye. I fell asleep during the Denise Richards one.

milo z (mlp), Sunday, 5 November 2006 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, I didn't think that one was so bad. Certainly nothing like as shit as the Halle Berry monstrosity.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Sunday, 5 November 2006 16:26 (nineteen years ago)

I haven't seen the Halle Berry monstrosity. I fell asleep at Tomorrow Never Dies (was that what it was called?) in the cinema. The end was really boring.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Sunday, 5 November 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

I bought that edition of Thunderball, with the two bullet holes in, this weekend! Whenever I'm in a second-hand bookshop I always search for those Pan editions of Bond novels, I'm building up a little collection. Casino Royale was the first I read and I'd second any recommendation of it, it's such a good read.

ampersand, hearts, semicolon (cis), Sunday, 5 November 2006 16:44 (nineteen years ago)

And yet I don't think I've ever seen a Bond film in full, certainly never gone to a cinema for one.

ampersand, hearts, semicolon (cis), Sunday, 5 November 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

For the films it started with seeing For Your Eyes Only on cable a number of times in 1982 -- I'm glad about that, since that meant by chance and an accident of time and technology it was Moore's best Bond by a mile which got imprinted on me. The only two Bonds I saw in the theater at the time of release were the two Daltons, oddly enough -- saw The Living Daylights twice! Everything else, not that I've seen them all all the way through, has been TV or DVD -- I have all the Connerys through You Only Live Twice along with The Living Daylights, and I need to finally get For Your Eyes Only.

So if I go see this one in the theater, which is looking much more likely now, that'll be the first time since 1989.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 November 2006 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

I really like The Living Daylights, it's hugely underrated in my opinion (which might be a wee bit affected by it being my first experience of Bond on the big screen). License to Kill is rubbish, though.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Sunday, 5 November 2006 17:02 (nineteen years ago)

Living is ultimately a strange mess -- too many villains spoil the broth, which is a pity since (though nobody knew it at the time) it turned out to be one of the last Cold War movies as such. The short story it's based on, which provides the first five minutes after the precredits sequence, is one of Fleming's most effective about moral decisions under pressure, and initially the film really lives up to that in a standard Bond film context. Even the clunky Third Man references work (but it is actually nice to see the difference between Vienna then and now). I like it but a better ending would have helped, and often it's Dalton rising above the material.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 November 2006 17:21 (nineteen years ago)

Dalton had the potential to be the most interesting Bond (though I have high hopes for Craig), it's a pity he wasn't given a longer tenure. The fight on the big bag of drugs hanging out the back of the plane in TLD is great, it's a shame they tacked on a weak second climax.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Sunday, 5 November 2006 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, disrupted the flow of the film -- putting together the other two villians in that small scene into the plane sequence would have wrapped it up nicely. At the same time (even for a series that loves self-recycling), that might have been a bit too close in the end with the plane fight that ends Octopussy (which for all its own flaws has some surprisingly effective moments, like when Bond is desperately trying to convince the US Army bods that, yes, there's a nuke on the base and yes, it's about to go off *right now*...).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 November 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

I always like it when Bond films indulge in a bit of gratuitous yank bashing.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Sunday, 5 November 2006 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

Meantime, a slew of positive reviews over in the UK, I gather, and though this is a tiny spoiler I do admit I liked hearing this:

Several reviewers noted one joke that deliberately breaks a Bond tradition. When asked if he wants his vodka martini shaken or stirred, Craig replies: "Do I look like I give a damn?"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

Ooh, hopefully the next Indiana Jones movie will be more emo too.

Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:37 (nineteen years ago)

It'll be a very crusty emo.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:39 (nineteen years ago)

Actually I read some rumor somewhere that Diddy eventually wants to play James Bond. Needless to say this would be the greatest movie in the universe.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

With Pharell as Q and the ghost of Biggie as M.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

He should settle for a remake of Action Jackson.

Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

I can see Diddy as Batman

latebloomer: none of th movies make scence but they r good. (latebloomer), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, here we go:

"One day the time will come for a black Bond and hopefully I can audition for it," the 36-year-old said at the MTV Europe Music Awards in Copenhagen.

Diddy, who appeared in Monster's Ball in 2001, said: "It's a dream of mine to play a great role like that."

Actor Daniel Craig's first outing as 007 is later this month when Casino Royale is released.

"I love the Bond they have now," said the musician. "He's a great actor and I think they made a great choice."

The rap star - real name Sean Combs - vowed that he would keep the audience entertained if he were to land the 007 role, saying: "That's what we get paid to do."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

The first thing I thought of when I heard about this was Barry Adamson's "007, A Phantasy Bond Theme," which rules.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

If Diddy is Batman, would we get Ma$e as Robin?

milo z (mlp), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

Jermaine Dupri takes the Michael Caine role.

milo z (mlp), Sunday, 5 November 2006 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

one thing i like about casino royale the novel = bond is a RUBBISH agent who acts like an idiot throughout

he is got out of a tight spot:
i. by the incompetence of a lowly SMERSH agent
ii. by his own skeez at makin a twat of himself
iii. by the incompetent greed of a less lowly SMERSH agent
iv. by the poor briefing of a by-the-book SMERSH agent
v. by the greater honour of a SMERSH agent

END SPOILERS END SPOILERS END SPOILERS END SPOILERS

in my copy, page 13 is my favourite viz:
"Satisfied that his room had not been searched while he was at the casino, Bond undressed and took a cold shower. Then he lit his seventieth cigarette of the day and sat down at the writing table..."

"Then he slept, and with the warmth and humour of his eyes extinguished, his features relapsed into a taciturn mask, ironical, brutal and cold."

neat trick!

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 5 November 2006 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

The first thing I thought of when I heard about this was Barry Adamson's "007, A Phantasy Bond Theme," which rules.

Oh, yes that is a great reimagining of the theme. Certainly better than Chris Cornell's theme which is almost enough to stop me going to see the film.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 5 November 2006 19:44 (nineteen years ago)

as heretical it might sound to bond fans, i think it's time to go back and just start going through the fleming novels again. pretty much all of those brosnan bond films were useless.

gear (gear), Monday, 6 November 2006 02:46 (nineteen years ago)

I thought the guy from Trainspotting and Ravenous was a good villain.

It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Monday, 6 November 2006 03:23 (nineteen years ago)

that one with denise richards was especially awful

latebloomer: none of th movies make scence but they r good. (latebloomer), Monday, 6 November 2006 03:34 (nineteen years ago)

Here I'd like to note that I didn't say it was a good movie - I said he was a good villain.

It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Monday, 6 November 2006 03:40 (nineteen years ago)

i think pierce brosnan is actually quite a good actor, but he played bond strictly lightweight (maybe because the movies were). i think the idea of brosnan as bond was much better than the reality. it's possible craig could be better than any previous bond with the exception of connery, though i don't believe connery's 'best bond ever' title is unassailable and i don't believe craig is incapable of taking it from him.

gear (gear), Monday, 6 November 2006 03:47 (nineteen years ago)

he tried to complicate bond slightly, that north korean torture stuff in dad, but generally those movies looked so ugly there wasn't much he could do. i think another reason a bond period piece film might be a good idea (obv it will never happen) besides 'britain as major player on world stage' plausibility is to allow a different approach to technology, in the recent bond the gadgetry's been unlikely in a very dull way ('it's...an invisible car!'). i've seen the others in the theater for some reason so i'm sure i'll see this one, glad to drool over eva green anytime and daniel craig could be a good choice, one reason connery's the best is that he captures bond as sociopath killer as much/well as bond as suave brit tuxfiller - when connery uttered bond quips it was an extension of bond's cruelty and coldness, when other's have done it (following moore's lead obv) it's been an extension of bond's suaveness. from what i can tell from the trailers craig's bond definitely has the thuggish aspect already (and the quips i saw seemed nicely nihilistic), w/ the class aspect to trained in appropriately as the civilized gentleman aspect is bond's front he shows to the world (coldblooded murderer is his reality)(for 'bond' read 'the west' lol). more to the point of the 'franchise' they should take a page from bourne movies (and a history of violence haha)(and maybe 24) and make bond this freakish superfast badass that we only briefly even see in action but when we do we're in terror/awe and then make his delimma/motivation/conflict whatever what happens when being a freakish superfast badass isn't enough. and i'm sure others will disagree but personally i think it'd be better if the villain's plots were strictly macguffins, more mundane, less giant laser that's gonna wipe north america off earth, etc.

j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 6 November 2006 04:08 (nineteen years ago)


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