2001: A Space Odyssey

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lem book is better. clarke's 2001 is really good too but different from the movie (they go to saturn instead).

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link

it's unrecognizable!!

j/k. i like the book a lot.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Clarke's book is technically a 'novelization' he completed during the film's 2 years of postproduction. The source short story "The Sentinel" ends with the moon's monolith signal going off and humanity ... waiting. (Similar to how Kubrick later used a Brian Aldiss story as the kernel for A.I.)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

HAL is very well done. In the book it's mentioned that he's neural-net-based,
which was a very radical thing to say in the late 60s, but dead-on.
One of the later Cray supercomputers had boards that would be ejected
at the push of a button. I wonder if that was inspired by HAL...

― shieldforyoureyes, Friday, 2 December 2005 17:30 (eighteen years ago) link

i remember in the intro to the book clarke (perhaps to deflect criticism of the book as merely a novelization) claimed that it was written simultaneously with the script, and thus was somewhat of a different creature: half source text, half novelization.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Clarke's book is technically a 'novelization' he completed during the film's 2 years of postproduction

xpost- yeah i've never really known the whole chronology, tho i think he explains it in the introduction. but the thing is, if the shooting was finished, he prolly would've written them as going to jupiter instead, but what do i know?

HAL is very well done. In the book it's mentioned that he's neural-net-based,
which was a very radical thing to say in the late 60s, but dead-on.

well clarke was pretty hot on anticipating new technologies.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link

he practically invented a bunch of them (see: geosynchronous satellites)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:35 (eighteen years ago) link

i think he had something to do with radar, too.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:38 (eighteen years ago) link

the 12 year-old me probably knows a lot more about all the cool stuff clarke did, tho. i forget everything.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:38 (eighteen years ago) link

i was a big clarke nut too.
i remember the 2001 book having WAY more detail about bowman's time in the white room - eating blue food products, etc.

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:42 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah!! that's totally coming back to me!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Me too! Clarke pwned George Carlin!

Alas, the Pan Am logo on the Floyd craft always gets a laugh now.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Pan Am is good for a laugh in like 1700 different movies! It's the only airline that existed according to the movie industry!

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link

okay, i'm finally back at my desk now,

sergei eisenstein on 'paris, texas' and ingmar bergman on 'beverley hills cop' would have made '83-'84 a different time.

the reason why i used the two examples i did(even if i did overstate the "different time" bit) was not to grab two random examples out of the air, but that Jodorowsky and Lynch where the original directors of those two flicks. there was even plenty of design work that went into Dune with Jodorowsky at the helm(as mentioned upthread). And that both versions differently wildly from their initial planning(Ewoks were added, Dali was removed, etc).

Of course, Jodorowsky probably wouldn't have had the wizard of oz references or jack nance in the final version, etc

in terms of just grabbing wildly different directors and inappropiate film choices: i'd pay good money for
-Roman Polanski's "Disorderlies"
-John Woo's "Out of Africa"(or even "The Natural")

now, in regards to the current convo, what was the name of the phone company used in 2001? was it Bell?

― kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Bell, yeah.

2001 Supernerd Final Jeopardy: What's the first line of dialogue? (I can only guess)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:38 (eighteen years ago) link

MONKEY: "Ai ai ai ai, grrrrr, ai ai ai!" ?

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link

My stab wd be "Welcome to Clavius."

And the last line? Floyd on tape [sic]: "[blah blah monolith], its origin...unknown"?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:09 (eighteen years ago) link

he was greeted by some dude before going through the customs/ID thing... don't think they mentioned Clavius... "hello doctor floyd" maybe?

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:14 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah, we watched "bullitt" last night over at jon williams' apartment and lo and behold, the bad guy gets on a pan am flight to rome.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link

That does lack the predictive i-ron-ee gap of operating moon shuttles / going bellyup, tho.

Bullitt not haf toomuch dialog for Noisedik to grow rezless?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I like how McQueen randomly curses at the end during his big moment in that movie. Like the way they super focus on the fact that HE JUST CURSED OH NOES is so great and amazing.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Haha, that was noted by those present!

― GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah, we watched "bullitt" last night over at jon williams' apartment and lo and behold, the bad guy gets on a pan am flight to rome.

And they make a biiIIIIIiiggggg deal about moving the portable airport tunnel thingy over to the airplane, to show that THIS is the future! No more having to climb stairs, people!

There's a lot of that in the movie, including that one extended bit about what a fax machine is.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:07 (eighteen years ago) link

if only Morricone had scored it and Steve McQueen played Bowman

And the painted ponies go up and down...

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Even you'd have to admit, it'd be pretty good, albeit not exactly the same, uh, feel per se...

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:21 (eighteen years ago) link

I still enjoy 2010, tho I don't think you can compare the two. Both flicks are aimed in completely different directions. The 2nd seems more a straight "hard" science fiction story.

Also, Roy Scheider in space! Bob Balaban & John Lithgow in the same movie! Candice Bergen as the SAL 9000! Dude had dolphins in his living room!

― kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:21 (eighteen years ago) link

I need to reread stuff about the Bullit / Blade Runner shit this weekend.

― GET EQUIPPED WITH UNICORN DREAMS (ex machina), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:27 (eighteen years ago) link

I remember liking McQueen in Junior Bonner, and otherwise only when he kept his mouth shut.

Candice Bergen as the SAL 9000!

I'm afraid to verify this!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:31 (eighteen years ago) link

C'mon, not even Cincinatti Kid?

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd watch a movie about CARDS?! The Hustler with CARDS!?! I don't even understand "go fish."

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't understand cards either! Haha you've gone on record already as disliking movies about a pasttime you do understand! Do you just hate movies involving games?

I realized the key in your last post though as to why you would like Steve McQueen; I mean he barely says anything in the vast majority of his movies. Everyone wins.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link

I still don't know what the fuck was going on in the last 20 minutes of Trading Places.

― detoxyDancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Again with the apes...

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I need to reread stuff about the Bullit / Blade Runner shit this weekend.
-- GET EQUIPPED WITH UNICORN DREAMS

Tell me more

― sleep (sleep), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Do you just hate movies involving games?

Usually. Especially THE BIG GAME climax. Cept for that awesome Bollywood cricket musical.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 20:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Like when MASH suddenly turns into a sports flick and stays there for no good reason?

― detoxyDancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 2 December 2005 21:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Or when Bowman tries to play catch with Poole's body!

Also... Keir Dullea way hotter than Steve McQueen.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 21:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Have you ever seen Cincinatti Kid though? Yr right, big game climaxes are usually crap and totally drawn-as-planned. However, (insert spoiler here)!

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 21:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Slapshot!

― kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 December 2005 22:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I was disappointed to learn that the windswept-field scenes in Mirror were
done using the downdraft from a helicopter. I had been asuming that
Tarkovsky could command the elements by the force of his will.

― shieldforyoureyes, Friday, 2 December 2005 22:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Huh, yeah I couldn't think of a way he could have caused it, so I thought he must have intentionally shot on a relatively windy day. Still beautiful though.

― sleep (sleep), Friday, 2 December 2005 23:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Yr right, big game climaxes are usually crap and totally drawn-as-planned.

Except The Bad News Bears, which is terrific. (The original, obvs.)

― phil d. (Phil D.), Friday, 2 December 2005 23:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I said usually! I like payoffs that involve failure or dying, like Brian's Song.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Saturday, 3 December 2005 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

When I get my own digital projector and an apartment to fit it in, I'll be sure and netflix 2001 again

Nahhh. 80-foot screen minimum, 120 pref'd.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:19 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...

Understatement and the Kuleshov effect in 2001

Most strikingly and most importantly, of course, the Kuleshov effect is in heavy use in the case of HAL himself. By all accounts, HAL displays a broader spectrum of emotions than any human being in the film. In him, Kubrick brings the Kuleshov effect to a kind of Zen perfection ...HAL has no face at all. His voice is flat and monotonous, just as it is programmed to be. His "eyes" are set in motionless panels that function only as reminders of his presence, not mirrors of his soul. He has absolutely no mechanism for emotional expression. None but one, that is--HAL is utterly reliant on the Kuleshov effect to make his feelings plain. ...

HAL is not the only character who displays understatement. Poole and Bowman both deliver their lines rather lifelessly, and their faces show little feeling. It seems to be an almost universal consensus that these men are cold and robotic. For the record, though, I must disagree with this. People rarely make great displays of emotion when they know for sure nobody's looking. One of the major things Kubrick is concerned with in 2001 is speculation about space travel, and one of his conclusions is that things would be very quiet. A major theme of the film is this total isolation that space engenders, beyond anything we know on Earth. Frank's and Dave's reserved temperaments owe largely, I think, to the complete absence of anyone to perform for. ...

I would also say that Kubrick is deliberately understating the astronauts' reactions, in keeping with the tone of the film. Dave, the more demonstrative of the two, shows mostly boredom, fear, determination, and thoughtfulness. In the act of "unplugging" HAL he shows mixed feelings, and through most of the end he displays open-mouthed shock, but his range doesn't extend much further.

The emotion that Dave implies, though, covers a broader range. He has a genuine fondness for HAL, and is always the one to consider HAL's point of view. He is caught in the grip of tremendous isolation. His loneliness is best shown by his sketches--his artistic urge, probably a response to the sterility of his environment, can be turned only toward images of the men in cold sleep, the most chillingly lifeless sights on the ship.

We know by these sketches that Dr. Bowman is a creative man, and by his long, thoughtful silences we are shown his thoroughness and intelligence. We know he is a "cool customer" by his self-control, even in peril of his life. In him, as in the computer, we see much more depth of character than he ever actually shows us. ...

We don't know HAL is frightened because he sounds frightened. We know he's frightened because Dave is coming to kill him. His blank voice forces us to experience his situation in his name and feel his own fear for him. We are one step closer to the action on screen, not reacting to the actors but reacting with the characters.

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 17:35 (seventeen years ago) link

People rarely make great displays of emotion when they know for sure nobody's looking.

I think anyone who has ever watched the Bait Car videos would disagree with this assessment.

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 17:50 (seventeen years ago) link

"rarely"

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 17:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Also see: black-box-recorder transcripts, viral videos of people squeezing their eyes shut when they think they're alone and the webcam is on, and spazzes who are caught on videotape after breaking into a liquor store after closing.

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 17:55 (seventeen years ago) link

You could make an argument that perhaps Dave is even more robotic than HAL, but the careful unblinking deliberation Bowman shows as he's going toward Frank and later, trying to get the pod doors open, always seemed a little artificial to me.

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 17:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Though in 1968, it probably wouldn't have gone over so well if the main character had just gone "Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck," for ten minutes.

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 17:59 (seventeen years ago) link

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