DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived Cleggeron era

what was the alternative?

refusing to support a party whose policies you're supposed to be opposed to?

Also why are the LDs so keen on AV all of a sudden? AV is less proportional than FPTP from what I can see, it'd only enforce a two-party squeeze. Is this just reform for reform's sake?

republican-style shutdown doesn't work in the parliamentary system. we'd have to have had an election in june. would have been seen as "waaah i didn't get the result i wanted, let's have another election".

NV isn't angry about the distinction between C&S and coalition.

Tories in this incarnation certainly don't have a mandate for five years of power, so how could five years happen?

it can't and it won't

Even from a "lol the Labour party needed to die" perspective I was only half-kidding about Lloyd George. When you've been out of power for 90-odd years it mightn't be the best thing to do to repeat the same mistake that killed yr party the next time you get a sight of the big time.

it won't last five years because the lib dem rank and file comprises men and women of character and backbone who won't be able to stomach.... oh shit

at least he looks sorta guilty about this

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/5/12/1273654747693/David-Cameron-Nick-Clegg--001.jpg

The Libdems are basically as split as every other party, but the right wing - the Orange Book brigade (with the exception of Susan Kramer - ahh diddums) - have got everything they wanted (and more) despite the party's wishes at conferences. Pretty clever moves all round. Ignore your party, lose seats = power!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=louXPUW7tHU

clegg has only been in parliament for five years. no-one knows ne thing about him. can we see his birth certificate?

I was too busy watching Blackpool's march to the Prem last night, can Clegg get this deal thru his MPs?

One of your top guys playing second fiddle to Cameron and the other playing second fiddle to Osborne doesn't strike me as power really worth having. They're going to be treated like shit once the novelty of power wears off for the Tories, the question is how much they can stand.

DIDN'T THE DAILY MAIL SAY HE WAS BORN IN...RUSSIA?

xp
I don't think he needs to now, but I'm confused at what the LDs actually do (as opposed to what they say they're gonna do).

can Clegg get this deal thru his MPs?

they put up a brave, brave fight, there were many resignations and declarations of principle, but in the end...

no-one knows ne thing about him.

Louis Theroux knows.

I was too busy watching Blackpool's march to the Prem last night, can Clegg get this deal thru his MPs?

They voted unanimously in favour of it.

There's some slight satisfaction in all yr darkest cynicism being proved right, I guess.

DIDN'T THE DAILY MAIL SAY HE WAS BORN IN...RUSSIA?

Aye half Russian half Dutch, Spanish wife, speaks far too many languages iirc.

Don't the LDs realise they've basically wiped themselves out for decades? Are they going to campaign separately and against the Conservatives at the next election while defending the exact same record?

You know how takeovers are sometimes called mergers then everyone forgets the little guy?

White Obama morelike Shite Obama.

You can use that one.

Can't wait for the detail on how the hell they're going to keep to this 'fixed-term' parliament through the heavy weather of economic, political crisis (over immigration and Europe) or any as yet unforeseen events (another banking crisis, or a Tory scandal).

Also the aftermath of this vote on AV (which will prob take place in the coming year) will lead to bitter fighting as different members of this coalition campaign for different outcomes. If relationships are frosty in 10 months this campaign could force them to breaking point. And NOW that vote will now probably serve as some kind of early referendum on this coalition (if they get 95% against AV for example), and then you have any coming council/local/euro elections (don't know when those would be) if it looks like some of their base is wiped out this will put a huge amount of pressure on the LD MPs.

Tbh if this 'fixed term parliament' is a nonsense (and who can tell at this point...don't be surprised if its somehow made to work, it is a first parliament for this lot not a tired third one, ppl are way too hungry for power) the only it could work for LDs if the economy and virtually everything else is doing great and then they can go back and face their constituents again.

And what's the Daily Mail saying now?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/05/12/article-1277599-09895752000005DC-244_964x323.jpg
They are so with it, man.

Don't the LDs realise they've basically wiped themselves out for decades?

a friend's sister is an LD councillor (their parents are 1970s lefties) and i'd be astonished if she stuck with them. reckon some lib dems will be departing, as NV said upthread. can't see lynn featherstone retaining her seat for example.

So in by-elections, will both the Tories and the LDs be fielding separate candidates?

Yes, it's not like the LD party has been completely swallowed up by another party, oh wait...

NV isn't angry about the distinction between C&S and coalition.

I would've been less shocked by a C&S deal akshully

lol at the british not getting the concept of coalitions

ps: i'm not defending this, through

I think a Confidence & Supply dealy would've been defensible, just. I don't see anything in this coalition that promotes anything that the LDs campaigned for, and presumably won votes for.

Will Hutton is claiming that this is Cameron's "Clause 4 Moment" - that in a single stroke he's transformed the tories into a Euro style Christian Democrat centre-right type party. Surely ignores the fact that Blair/Mandy actually ripped the heart out of transformed Labour before taking power, rather than grafting on an external moderate wing on the fly?

Oh I am sure that people *get* coalitions - it's just that nobody *wants* this one.

hutton is off his meds if he thinks that

ashcroft ain't gonna 'ave it!

So in by-elections, will both the Tories and the LDs be fielding separate candidates?

Dunno. Will the LDs even have their own policies anymore?

What's depressing me at the moment is that the LDs actually proposed NOT ringfencing the NHS from cuts. I figure Cameron won't take too much convincing to "bend" on that issue.

Cameron and Clegg are the Jedward of politics. You hope they'll fuck off after a few months, but the fear is that they're here for the long term. So fucking glad I didn't vote LD as I'd be feeling ten times more burned than I feel right now.

Cable-Osborne is the interesting one here, given Cable is far more economically literate than Gosbourne there could be massive tensions there. One good thing here is that Cable is in a better position than anyone else to work out what to do with the banks, but whether he'll get any reform past the Tory Party is anyone's guess. Still, biggest potential flashpoint from what I can see.

New Labour leader is going to have to get used to being the third most important party leader in the country. That'll be chastening.

What's depressing me at the moment is that the LDs actually proposed NOT ringfencing the NHS from cuts. I figure Cameron won't take too much convincing to "bend" on that issue.

Dunno, this is pretty totemic for Cameron, it's like Blair's pledge not to raise income tax. He'll be hammered if he does that.

a horribly formed thread title for horribly formed times

― Greatest contributor: (history mayne), Wednesday, 12 May 2010 09:22 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

time to eat a pizza bagel and get stoked for the sadness, I guess

New Labour leader is going to have to get used to being the third most important party leader in the country. That'll be chastening.

Not sure about that. As Michael Crick pointed out last night, when there's a debate on telly you can't exactly have Labour, Con and an LD spokesman all on the show because that would mean the opposition was outnumbered 2-1. How long will it take for the LDs to start becoming more or less invisible?

given Cable is far more economically literate than Gosbourne there could be massive tensions there.

can't believe gideon osborne is actually chancellor of the fucking exchequer. incredible.

Osborne's first job was to provide data entry services to the National Health Service to record the names of people who had died in London.[8] He also briefly worked for Selfridges. He originally intended to pursue a career as a journalist, but after failing to become one at a national newspaper, was informed of a vacant job at the Conservative Central Office.[8]

Tory bloggers already going in on Cable as their #1 bogeyman for the next five years.

They'd still be less powerful than Cameron and Clegg, TV debates or no TV debates.

Don't think we're gonna get debates next time anyway, given two out of three parties seem to have decided they were A Bad Idea.

Just wondering if this means a flatshare at No 10? Couldn't give a toss about any of the other details in this ugly union tbh.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/5/12/1273654747693/David-Cameron-Nick-Clegg--001.jpg

so used to seeing no 10 waving pic of husband and wife that it looks like clegg and cameron just announced their civil partnership

nothing civil about it imo

hatesex as legislative process, should be interesting

Considering emigration, cd you put us up until I can get a cushy job as a builder?

What's depressing me at the moment is that the LDs actually proposed NOT ringfencing the NHS from cuts.

Why? I'm not one to stan for public sector cuts but if there are savings to be made in the NHS *without affecting quality patient care, staff well-being, etc.* why shouldn't they be made? Should we cut an efficient and useful branch in another department while ignoring a wasteful/useless branch in the NHS because the NHS is somehow untouchable?

(sounding like Vince Cable now. Hope NV's got some bleach left)

16 months for throwing a bin and jumping on a car does, yes, seem just a tad much

this only got big cuz of DEAD CHILDREN, i'm not sure computer hacking will atract nearly the same vitriol

8 months in jail for Gilmour is fucking disgusting, half the student population of the country shd be shitting themselves tonight.

that said I cdn't possibly have been so mobile on an acid and valium cocktail

i think that's probably true at least as far as public opinion is concerned, but there's scope for much more serious criminal offences the the kind of computer hacking rumoured xp

It's 16 months (yeah yeah I know he'll be out in 8). Can Gilmour appeal? OTOH he threw a wheelie bin at CHARLES AND CAMILLA OH NOES. xp

PennyRed Laurie Penny
If we're going to make an example of those who defile war memorials, shall we start with the politicians destroying the welfare state?
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Sometimes I wonder how anyone over 25 takes Laurie Penny seriously.[NB: the cenotaph incident wasn't what he was jailed for]

More broadly though, that jail sentence is plainly OTT.

16 months? Fuck, GARY Gilmore only did 4 months in prison.

I guess he he was shot by firing squad at the end of it though, so fair play.

i think that's probably true at least as far as public opinion is concerned, but there's scope for much more serious criminal offences the the kind of computer hacking rumoured xp

― caek, Friday, July 15, 2011 1:55 PM (2 minutes ago)

hopefully

^^^awaiting more of caek's insidery stuff tbh, JUICY.

DL, it's the lefty version of WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN. OTOH the comparisons with sexual harassment sentences are on point.

i think it's probably time to lock this, start a new uk normal politics thread, and spin off a newscorp/uk end of season finale/brooks did 9/11 thread

I wouldn't want someone jailed if they lobbed a bin at my car whilst I was driving it, but I'd definitely want some sort of punishment that would be more than a mild inconvenience to them

xpost -- Start up the new threads and I'll lock this one down.

any objections?

just want to continue the DEM/CON theme pour irriter les feebs

suzy - Exactly. Shame one of the most widely-read left-wing writers in Britain is such a sucker for glib, student-bar non-analogies.

Idea to start two new threads strongly seconded BTW

ok gimme a sec

DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived post-Murdoch era

The Official Newscorp/UK end of season finale/Rebekah Brooks did 9/11 thread

gonna miss this thread. i had a lovely time.

http://i53.tinypic.com/29mavdc.jpg

rivaderch