2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

Jordan, reading that excerpt was really sad. Presumably people presented w/yr pal's education and opportunities should maybe LEARN HOW TO FUCKIN' SPELL. Anyway, I'm sure he didn't grow up in a 1BR apartment jammed with a family of (ISTR) five like Michelle Obama did.

Pledge of allegiance history: it was 'One Nation, indivisible' before the McCarthy squad added the God bit to distinguish from Godless Commies. John McWayne should be old enough to remember the change, and if he cannot, check for dementia...

William Rees-Mogg said that Obamarama is going all the way to the White House on R4 this morning, and he's a very, very old fart here.

isn't a prediction from Mystic Mogg the kiss of death, though?

i agree at how sad that correspondence is

my obj to the Pledge was always the "justice for all" bullshit

more info. on the pro-clinton 527:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/American_Leadership_Project.html

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_supporters_create_new.php

Opposing view: Both sides must agree

I am fine with "justice for all" as long as it is secondary to "justice for me, Dan Perry".

http://www.patrickruffini.com/2008/02/13/the-marketing-of-the-president-2008/

"Watching Obamamania unfold over the last few days, I have gradually come to the realization that we are living through the first Presidential campaign that is being marketed like a high-end consumer brand."

If that were the case, their would be no Oprah Winfrey

I am fine with "justice for all" as long as it is secondary to "justice for me, Dan Perry"

Not too late to run on that very platform.

Ruffini doesn't get out much, does he.

The golden aureole which had blinded the right has dissolved, and now the attacks begin. The latest: Obama and Michelle Obama are "narcissists."

I'm going to buy popcorn in anticipation of the moment in a debate when the question is about the Patriot Act, or the limits of Presidential power, or Supreme Court nominees, and Obama gets to explain to his no doubt worthy opponent how the Constitution actually works.

But Obama can't sound like a SMARTY PANTS, it alienates the masses!

golden areola? whose nipple you talkin about, alfred?

xpost He has some leeway this year. As long as he doesn't sigh heavily, I think he'll come off ok.

i never noticed obama's logo before. it is pretty good.

by the by, i phonebanked 2 hours for obama yesterday evening. it's the first time i've volunteered for a campaign. huzzah.

what was it like?

called numbers off a list compiled from unaffiliated and democratic voter registrations rolls. plenty of wrong and disconnected numbers, left lots of messages about the rally in RI with michelle obama today. when i did speak with someone, asked if they were voting on march 4 and who they supported and let them know about the rally. basically, it was winnowing down the list to identify supporters for GOTV and volunteering and identifying undecided voters for future targeting.

the location was in a real estate office, and there were maybe 10 people there. and free pizza.

So no Che flags on the premises right?

glen greenwald gettin psyched for the general election http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/02/20/obama/index.html

That blog entry is interesting. I'm thinking, first off, this is all they got? "He's just a brand!" It made me think of Colbert saying to O'Reilly, "If you're just an act, then what am I?"

And of course secondly, it's not a bad point. Except I happen to like that Obama is being marketed smoothly and attractively. It's another issue on which he gives me hope for the future. "Oooh! I like Gill Sans!"

Couldn't do any worse.

I have gradually come to the realization that we are living through the first Presidential campaign that is being marketed like a high-end consumer brand.

Whoo my God is this ever bullshit.

elmo, do you actually think you made any difference? i know it's not quite the same but i volunteered on Super Tuesday for the phonebank at Hillary's HQ in Arlington.

Estimated that I spoke to approx 500 people over the course of the day and affected, maybe, 4 people's voting intentions. Waste of fuckin' time and money in my opinion.

(I'm not a big Hillary fan btw, not even Merican, just thought it would be an interesting experience)

upt0, i can't say whether or not i made a difference -- but i did get some satisfaction out of just having participated. phonebanking is pretty low-level volunteer work -- and it's probably not as effective at changing minds as, say, canvassing -- but i'd like to think it makes the campaign coordinators' and operatives' efforts easier and more effective.

it occurs to me that had clinton just won 10 primaries in a row with the margins Obama did, he would be completely written off right now. the only thing keeping clinton alive is the name and legacy; but this campaign is finished.

x-post

perhaps. i enjoyed it and i was there from prety much 9am til 11pm. I liked having conversations with the few people willing to talk and explaining to them why I thought Hillary was worth voting for - pretty much ignored the script - but in terms of getting people out to vote who had already decided they weren't going to...

I just thought that considering the operation cost about a million dollars for that day alone (so i was informed by someone important) the money could have been far better spent elsewhere. no wonder the campaign revealed two days later how financially exhausted it was. this idea that Hillary has the efficient, experienced militarily precise campaign machine struck me as being a bit devoid of merit.

...had clinton just won 10 primaries in a row with the margins Obama did, he would be completely written off right now.

-- akm

Dunno about Clinton being finished, but the rest = OTM.

Can McCain effectively attack Obama on public financing when McCain used his certification for public financing as collateral on a loan to his campaign? I understand the intention of the attack, but I wonder if it will backfire if they push too hard.

clinton been ded - look for the media to start catching on leading to obama wins in ohio n texas - followed by clinton surrender

didn't Obama and McCain sponsor some climate change legislation? I can't see McCain getting very nasty – he'll let the right wing propaganda arm do his dirty work – but I do see a lot of stern finger-wagging.

how does campaign financing work after the primaries? are donations reset once the nominee is picked, ie: if a person/group maxed out their donation to obama, can they re-donate to him once he gets the nomination? I'm just wondering since ti seems like so much of obama's donations have come from individuals.... if the charge was to point the finger about him taking loads of special interest money, I don't know that this will be the case

as obama and mccain turn towards each other and preview a general election fight, the clinton campaign is going to be largely forsaken by the press. her attacks against obama are going to be seen as supplementing mccain's attacks. obama will increasingly turn towards his presumed opponent, and mccain has all but written clinton off. but she'll get attention in the press when she goes negative. it doesn't look good for her.

Clinton's only hope is to go negative.

It might not "look good," but it's still her best shot. Her campaign probably hopes it can inspire a last minute panic about Obama.

akm, the individual limit is $2,300 for the primary and $2,300 for the general election. if a campaign has accepted general election funds during the primary but loses the nomination, the g.e. funds have to be returned.

Clinton went pretty negative up here and it didn't work -- in fact, polling data suggests that it backfired big-time.

the problem with clinton going negative is she can only hope to erode the positive associations people have with obama, but she risks increasing her negatives at the same time. if her only press coverage of negative attacks, she'll be quicly and popularly perceived as the negative, status-quo politician, and that's how she'll lose.

it is incredibly unlikely, in any case, that obama will lose the primary for a lack of financial support

i like that clinton's latest attacks are "Obama uses WORDS to dazzle you all"

<i>didn't Obama and McCain sponsor some climate change legislation? I can't see McCain getting very nasty – he'll let the right wing propaganda arm do his dirty work – but I do see a lot of stern finger-wagging.</i>

I dunno, I thought he was particularly aggressive in his speech last night.

Byron York reports:

On the same conference call, Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson pointed out the inability of an Obama surrogate, appearing last night on MSNBC, to name a single legislative accomplishment that Obama has achieved. "That is a major moment for voters," Wolfson said. In addition, Wolfson continued, "when you have Sen. Obama found lifting portions of speeches…that is a major moment for voters."

On another issue, Wolfson said he knew nothing about a new 527 group that is reportedly planning to spend millions of dollars attacking Barack Obama in Ohio. "I'm not familiar with the 527 group that has been reported on," Wolfson said. "I don't know anything about it." But Wolfson said it should not be an issue because other 527s have helped Obama in the past. "I can't imagine that Sen. Obama is in any position to make an issue of this, given that there was a 527, I think it was called Vote Hope, that spent millions on his behalf in California."

My response: if a voter can't identify any of Obama's legislative "accompmlishments," how is it Obama's fault?

Clinton is screwed, as I have been noting for at least several months. give it up already lady

i did actually see that msnbc bit with matthews, it was embarassing, but only for Watson, not Obama.

also, Vote Hope didn't do massive amounts of negative, attack ads against Clinton in California, or if they did, I completly missed them. I haven't seen ANY negative advertising from the obama side

McCain will never win, I hope he gets the Rep nod after a bruising primary.

-- Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:41 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

still feel this way too

Doing negative ads on Hilary seems like shooting fish in a barrell.

im curious to see waht sorts of things obama starts saying abt mccain now - cause if his strategy toward hillary is any indication he'll have something deceptively good and he'll stick w/it - staying on message though out the general election

what he accomplished here in the primaries is bonkers - making the stacked experienced favored clinton campaign scramble looking like total amatuers - they were changing their message every day while obamas just kept playing - dude is ahead of the game and i am totes impressed1