Is ADHD a real disorder?

ps thanks for the needless condescension

Like you think I didn't try that? And face the doctor going "hrmm, that side effect isn't listed in the handbook. If you're hallucinating, maybe you're having a schitzophrenic breakdown, and should be put on even MORE heavy medications for the side effects of the medication we put you on to stop the side effects of the first one..."

And then you learn to shut your mouth in doctors offices, and trust experiencial evidence.

x-posts

p.s. Stence, you know I love you, but you're kind of being a dick on this thread. Can't you go and do something nice, like post pictures of your hair? :-)

xxxxpost

:( I was not being condescending and have emailed my brother. If he gives me a useful response, I will share. (also I have been on Strattera and had no bad side effects although I don't feel it did much good either.)

Kate, I think you're being the dick.

y'know, it isn't naive to suggest that doctors actually should be WORKING for you, as a patient. if you feel that your doctor isn't helping you or is withholding information from you or just isn't aware of the facts, you can go to a new one (at least in the states) (if you have good insurance, which i don't).

however, doctors are not cure-all medicine man shaman types. and they certainly can't do their jobs if you don't share what you're experiencing with them. the doctor-patient relationship has to go both ways for it to even be somewhat useful.

and asking for someone's opinion on a drug they've taken is fine, but won't necessarily help you at all. everyone's physiology is different (like wow! ya don't say), and some side effects that someone on ritalin might experience may not be relevant to you at all.

again, if you feel i'm being condescending to say that you should talk - candidly and with as much detail as possible as you can - to a doctor, well, then i guess i'm being condescending. but i know that if i was going to take anything on the advice of a physician - or anyone else, for that matter - i'd want to know as much as possible about it, and i'd ask that physician as many questions as i could think of to ask.

And then you learn to shut your mouth in doctors offices, and trust experiencial evidence.

that's really not going to do you any favors. i'm sure that culturally there's a lot of differences between health care in the uk and health care here, but there's no way i'd let a doctor shut me up or stifle me from asking questions when my own health is concerned.

from drugs.com:

lithium side effects:

*extreme thirst, urinating more or less than usual;
*weakness, fever, feeling restless or confused, eye pain and vision problems;
*restless muscle movements in your eyes, tongue, jaw, or neck;
*pain, cold feeling, or discoloration in your fingers or toes;
*feeling light-headed, fainting, slow heart rate;
*hallucinations, seizure (blackout or convulsions);
*fever with muscle stiffness, sweating, fast or uneven heartbeats; or
*early signs of lithium toxicity, such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, drowsiness, muscle weakness, tremor, lack of coordination, blurred vision, or ringing in your ears.

I assume hallucinations covers both visual and auditory.

Knowledge is power and you should always do your own research. This includes from official sources as well as other users of those meds. As with all info you must remember not to take anything as the final word and exercise your own judgement.

Stence, if you were going to get contact lenses, would you talk to an eye doctor with perfect vision, or would you ask your mate who had contacts what they were like?

If you were gonna get a bicycle, would you talk to a bicyclist, or a bicycle salesman who drove a car everywhere?

If you were gonna get a house built, would you hire an architect who had only ever read about engineering, or one who had had experience working with engineers on site on other projects?

It's a perfectly valid question to want to ask someone with actual experience, rather than simply accept the prognosis of an expert.

Ask both and make your decision based on both is the smart route.

xpost - those are completely strawman arguments. doctors don't just work in some magical vacuum without other patients and research, much less years and years of training.

Sorry, I somehow missed the post where you actually asked questions.

What are the biggest drawbacks to ritalin, assuming non-abuse?

For me, the biggest thing was behavioural -- the anger thing. I used to get angry about things for about five seconds, but by the time that amount of time had passed, I had forgotten the feeling of the anger. Not necessarily forgot what made me angry, nor why it made me angry-- I just sort of... disconnected from it very quickly. Now I actually have the capacity to "hold on" to that feeling, which scared me for a while-- I actually found myself having to breathe slower, count to ten, etc.

Is it dependency forming?

yes and no. If I don't take them, I'm 'off' all day-- kind of tired, kidn of irritable, unable to focus on even things I enjoy-- but, I was like this before I started taking Ritalin. I'd say it's habit-forming insofar that it makes you more productive, and you... get used to being more productive? Does that make sense?

Does it wear off after a while, moving you to stronger drugs?

I was on 2x10mg fast release of Ritalin for a while, about 4-6 hours apart from each other. Then I was on 1x20 slow release ritalin, with 5-10mg fast release on days where I 'needed' it. I then went to 36mg Concerta, which is a bit more but metered out even longer than the slow release (14 hours instead of 10, roughly). I have been on the 36mg Concerta for probably a couple of years now, with no need to upgrade-- I've thought about it a couple of times, but for the most part I'm doing okay without. If I developed a 'tolerance,' it was to the side effects, and the actual benefits remained.

I know about the risk of heart palpitations and all that.

I've had my blood pressure feel like it's gone up only fter accidentally taking my ritalin twice (I'm absent minded before it kicks in, so about 3 times in the past few years I've said 'hey, I should take it' then three minutes later, 'hey I should take it.') On my regular dose, though, no real problems. I've been going to my doc a few times a year to make sure my blood pressure is still safe. Then again, I'm 23, thin, and I run around a fair bit. YMMV.

Your doc should only be putting you on a trial run first, anyway, because Ritalin ISN'T for everyone with 'ADD.' Having been someone with ADD and having been a camp counselor for other kids with ADD has shown me that the actual label is bullshit, and I think it's just a blanket term for lots of different mental problems that have similar symptoms. Ritalin has made my life a LOT better. Some people, it's made it way worse. Some people do better on Dexedrine (one of my best friends in HS), some on anti-depressants (an ex-boyfriend of my friend), some on other pills (I don't know people on the other stuff, like Adderall, Strattera, etc, but I know they work for some). The best way to know for sure is to try one and see if it helps. Ritalin won't make you a junkie if you do it for a couple of days.

THIS IS REALLY XXXXXXXXPOSTED

What are you guys arguing? NEVER LISTEN TO DOCTORS ABT DRUGZ vs. NEVER LISTEN TO ANYONE BUT DOCTORS ABT DRUGZ? Because if so you're both so wrong. Even in the 'straw man' arguments what would stop me from listening to the guy who wears contacts AND the eye doctor?!

That is what I have said. Anything otherwise seems stupid. Like I said knowledge is power esp when it comes to your health. You can never ask too many questions.

i never said not to ask other people, what i'm arguing is that a doctor is generally going to be more informed - generally has to be more informed even (it's their job, afterall) - moreso than other people you know who have taken the same drug/had the same procedure, because not everyone reacts the same way to the same drug.

i dont think hstencil was ever really arguing that you shouldnt talk to your friends, just that masonic boom's "DONT TRUST DOCTORS" stance is sorta ridiculous

xpost yep

I'm not even going to try to express myself any more, you guys can just carry on reading whatever you like into my posts, regardless of what I'm trying to say.

But Will, I'd like to say thanks for that post, that's the kind of detailed information that I'd like to know before taking any drug.

To MB's credit, it's fucking HARD to trust a doctor after they've disregarded what you've said about your experiences on something, or perpetually misprescribed. I have a lot of friends who feel the same way-- in fact, one of my best friends was on Lithium for a while when he definitely shouldn't have been.

The real trick here, though, is to make sure you have a good doctor. That's what nobody seems to have brought up yet... you can say not to trust doctors, or to trust them more than non-doctors, but when it comes down to it, a good doctor's advice is as helpful as a bad doctor's is harmful. It's naive to think that all doctors are wise and intelligent and caring and good listeners, but it's callous to think that they're all the doc from Requiem for a Dream. The best we can do is find the right doctor.

That's easy for me to say though, I live in Canada.

The real trick here, though, is to make sure you have a good doctor.

Absolutely. You have to keep trying until you find one that clicks with you and you know you can trust. My current psych. is fan-fucking-tastic. Alas he takes no insurance so I must pay cash. That is the sad truth of US healthcare: to get the best you must often have the dough.

dude:

y'know, it isn't naive to suggest that doctors actually should be WORKING for you, as a patient. if you feel that your doctor isn't helping you or is withholding information from you or just isn't aware of the facts, you can go to a new one (at least in the states) (if you have good insurance, which i don't)

if you think your doctor isn't listening to you or isn't answering your questions to your satisfaction, BY ALL MEANS GO TO A DIFFERENT ONE. how many times do i have to say it?

also you could not pay me to take lithium, no way.

Have you tried it before?

It's been miraculous for me and zero serious side-effects. I know a lot of people have bad side effects but for others (like myself) it is seriously the only thing that works.

no i haven't tried it but based on what doctors (ha!) and people i know who've taken it (double ha!) have told me, and that list of side effects, i wouldn't want to. if you had a positive experience, that's great! i feel like i've known a lot of people who've taken it who have had intensely negative experiences on it, not to mention it isn't really applicable to any problems i've really had anyway.

Saying you would never take it based on what you've heard from others is just as ignorant as what's been said above.

If you suffered from the disease it is used for and literally tried everything else, trust me trying something you've heard some bad things about in an attempt to be able to actually LIVE is perfectly valid. It is not physically addictive and you can always get off of it if you don't like it.

Compared to other mood stabilizers used to treat Bipolar Disorder it's the simplest, most tried and true drug out there.

It's been good for my wife as well. Some side effects, none TOO bad, except her drymouth is so bad she probably drinks 4-5 liters of water a day.

xpost

lol, so now you're telling me that what doctors have told me about it is "ignorant?"

and again, it isn't even applicable for anything i'd need, what i've learned from doctors (and patients too!) was asking out of curiosity. if it worked for you, then good for you. again, not all drugs work for everyone, even people with the same symptoms and diseases.

xpost

Like I've said over and over you have to use many different resources and then YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT. Did you ask psychiatrists? In my experience, GPs don't know as much as specialists.

Yeah also do you ever watch drug commercials? They are required to list every side effect ever reported but chances are you'll only experience a fraction of them if that.

The only thing lithium does to me is the dry mouth Hardy mentioned. I always have water or gum with me. So what? Drinking water's good for you. I also have an extreme intolerance to heat and weight gain. However that could be attributed to the thyroid disease I've just been diagnosed with.

When I was on Depakote my hands shook so bad I couldn't write and my students would ask what was wrong with me. It looked like I had DTs. Oh I also tried to commit suicide on that one.

Topamax, face paralyzed.

Trileptal, extreme dizziness and passing out conking my head on the floor.

I've been the happiest and most stable on Lithium than I ever have in my life.

Thanks for the rundown above, Will. I've got a psych appointment two weeks from now to see if I can get on ADD meds after thirty years of consistently losing the plot. I'm all ears for any helpful info I can get on the subject.

I've been the happiest and most stable on Lithium than I ever have in my life.

this phrasing is exactly what terrifies everyone about it

Someone mentioned Provigil on another thread recently. It's not an ADD drug necessarily but it is a stimulant that's supposed to greatly help with concentration.

xpost

Why Tom? What's wrong with actually being able to live life the way most other people do?

people are only comfortable with miracles that come from their own concept of god

that was an xpost but it answers your question anyway.

funny, that.

not really that funny at all

It's hard to have a conversation about the value of a drug with people who have never experienced the disease it treats.

As many threads about mental disorders often devolve into, none of these are magic pills. You don't take them and instantly become a member of the polyphonic spree. The merely free you from being a prisoner to your moods and give you the mental clarity to actually live life: hold a job, maintain a relationship, not drug and drink in an attempt to self-medicate, not constantly plan suicide, not risk jail b/c of your insane antics.

This stable feeling that most people take for granted opens up so much more of life. It's simply called being healthy.

This thread has inspired me to pick up the phone and call a doctor. I've been needing to for... shit... YEARS. I need ADD meds, and for a while anyway I need sleep meds. I've been using Lunesta at night, but it doesn't work anymore for some reason. I wake up after 4 hours, consistently, and sometimes I can go back to sleep, and sometimes I can't. Not sleeping really fucks with your life.

Anyway. xpost to Deric: "losing the plot" is a perfect way to put it.

Yay! I got an appointment tomorrow! That was easy.

The magic R helped with my sleep, too, because when it wears off I'm often quite tired (possibly due ot expending more energy over the course of the day).

I should mention another side effect... I lost 15-20lb when I started it. Good for some people, I guess, but I was already only 170lb, and 6'3".

Trazadone is also good for sleep and pretty mild overall.

totally anecdotal so yes i'm taking it with a grain of salt as should you but one of the most fucked up times i've ever seen someone on a prescription drug was when a former boss was on provigil. he also had/has a bit of a drinking/drug problem so obviously it wasn't due to the provigil solely, but man, he was totally nuts when he was on it.

I think drinking and drugs combined with a stimulant would be a serious, possibly heart-attack inducing, problem

Trazodone is also used to reduce the symptoms of agoraphobia, drug induced insomnia, essential tremor, repetitive screaming, and some pain syndromes.

heh. I'm really glad I do not suffer from repetitive screaming.

New thread: Is repetitive screaming a real disorder?

haha, I've never seen that! That's what Homer needed when kept having the hypnosis-induced nightmare.

I think drinking and drugs combined with a stimulant would be a serious, possibly heart-attack inducing, problem

-- Ms Misery, Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:23 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

yep, he's kind of a mess even without the provigil.

New thread: Is repetitive screaming a real disorder?

It's going to be in about five more posts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio

"drug-induced insomnia" = "just stopped doing so much coke?"

so yeah, nevermind me, ask a bunch of non-expert non-professionals!

So you're basically assuming that EVERYONE on this board is a non-expert/non-professional. Next you'll tell me all people surfing the net are sexually deprived socially inept nerds or something. Way to go, Hstencil. Secondly you don't need to be a professional to have a well-based opinion on this matter (or any other matter).

So, HStencil, whenever you need an opinion, do you call the 0900-EXPERT-R-US line disregarding what anyone else says?

I think he was only responding to the idea that you shouldn't ask doctors at all.

What a great thread. I love ILX.

It seems par for the course for ILx

I know, Sam, I was overreacting a bit. Hurting was asking some experiences and that's what he gets as a snappy reply (from Hstencil). I really think people should have a bit more tact sometimes. Here and everywhere else.

hey look! the human fucking race!

retards!