more comparable if he said, "lunch, that's where i'm a viking," because sleep isn't actually the verb. the verb would be 'sleeping, that's where i'm a viking,' to be grammatically correct (i believe?), whereas 'sleep, that's where i'm a viking,' has to be the place he goes. with the cafeteria example it would be, 'lunch, that's where i'm a viking,' where to be a grammatically correct verb it would have to be, 'lunching, that's where i'm a viking,' (ie: parsing it as: i excel at sleeping, over, i excel at sleep)
― Mordy, Friday, 30 April 2010 07:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Tuomas, you must know some Vikings.Is there an equivalent reverse phrase used by them when a) they fail,AND/OR b) they dream of being Ralph?
― tomofthenest, Friday, 30 April 2010 07:58 (fourteen years ago) link
(Speaking the unspeakable: how many of the fans of interpretation A are not native speakers of the English language?)
― Three Word Username, Friday, 30 April 2010 08:18 (fourteen years ago) link
Jeez, people, if you are honestly making the argument of "most people don't do this, so why would Ralph?" then you are missing the entire. fucking. point.
Indeed. I don't quite get the argument that Ralph wouldn't use Viking in the sense of excelling in things, because it's such a weird use of language... Is Ralph really known as a normative user of English?
Ralph isn't smart enough to come up with a hipsterish turn of phrase like "being a viking" at some activity. That you're just assuming that the writers all of a sudden decided to retcon his character and have him be smart enough to come up with his very own catchphrase is absurd. He goes to sleep and becomes a viking, that's all he's smart enough to understand.
First of all, it's not necessarily a "hipsterish turn of phrase", just a weird way of using language - something kids do all the time. Secondly, IIRC there's been at least one episode where Ralph was indeed "retconned" to be surprisingly smart. It's not like Simpsons characters are always super consistent from one episode to another; the writers often just use them to tell jokes, even if the said joke might be somewhat against what the character was like in previous episodes. For example, in the same "Viking" episode it's also established that Lisa becomes a vegetarian, and whereas most later episodes take that for granted, in some episodes she's still shown eating meat. And it's not like Ralph thinking "Viking" means excelling in something requires a huge retconning of his character... Much bigger retcons have been done to other characters - remember the episode where Skinner was revealed to be a fake?
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 08:26 (fourteen years ago) link
― Three Word Username, Friday, April 30, 2010 4:18 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark
I think a more pertinent question would be how many A-siders are recent products of the American public school education system, as iirc grammar is simply not taught anymore in schools. I do admit though that I learned English at school and spoke Chinese at home.
― I Think Ur a Viking (dyao), Friday, 30 April 2010 08:45 (fourteen years ago) link
just wanted to talk about the word emphasis after watching it on youtube
ralph says "SLEEP! Thats where I'M a VIking" - I used to hear this pattern all the time with my kids, it indicates that they think they are, or at least are pretending to be something ( I'M a RObot, I'M a COOL girl, I'M a MONster ): equal emphasis on I'm and Viking, implying equivalence.
compare that to the metaphorical use, which would usually be "i'm a MONSTER", "i'm a VIKING", ie all the emphasis on the metaphor.
― tomofthenest, Friday, 30 April 2010 08:47 (fourteen years ago) link
But Ralph's voice isn't done by a real kid rather than an adult.
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 08:58 (fourteen years ago) link
Also, remember that the teacher has just criticized Ralph for being incompetent, so his line, and the emphasis, is in response for that. He might suck at cutting worms, but at least sleeping is something where HE'S good at.
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 09:02 (fourteen years ago) link
"in response to that"
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 09:04 (fourteen years ago) link
part of the joke is that ralph is so dumb/naive that he doesn't even notice the teacher's dismay and instead is just excited that he gets to go to sleep and be a viking again
― Wir fahren fahren fahren auf der Autoban (Curt1s Stephens), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:04 (fourteen years ago) link
in which case you would expect the emphasis to be just on the "I'M", not on the "VIking" too. (xp)
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:04 (fourteen years ago) link
Why? It's the same as saying "That's where I'M the BEST!". That doesn't sound like a particularly weird way of emphasizing words.
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 09:08 (fourteen years ago) link
it's less usual.
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:10 (fourteen years ago) link
But no so unusual that it would make "Viking of Sleep" interpretation ridiculous - if it would really be that unusual, I don't think 35% of people in the poll above would've interpreted the line as excelling in sleep.
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 09:15 (fourteen years ago) link
When the argument has gone on this long, everybody is wrong.
But seriously, B is the actual answer, and A is just something enough people have misunderstood as a possibility that it's picked up momentum.
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:18 (fourteen years ago) link
If the statement was "Oh boy, sleep! That's how I get to be a viking!" the Dreamers would have a much better case.
seriously? if you were in the writer's room and someone else pitched the line (with the dream meaning) you would suggest that change? smh
― Dennis Parrotin' (some dude), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:21 (fourteen years ago) link
― Wir fahren fahren fahren auf der Autoban (Curt1s Stephens), Friday, April 30, 2010 5:04 AM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah to me this has always been the part of it that's actually funny, and his obliviousness I think is reflected in his intonation and facial expressions.
― Dennis Parrotin' (some dude), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:22 (fourteen years ago) link
― Tuomas, 30 April 2010 09:02 (20 minutes
The more obvious and simple link & line is that being a viking is something Ralph enjoys, btw, as opposed to being bad at everything IRL.
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:24 (fourteen years ago) link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/tracerhand/Denied2.gif
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 30 April 2010 09:25 (fourteen years ago) link
^ This too, for all of us. thread is a sinkhole of despair.
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:26 (fourteen years ago) link
i can rescue it, check this out
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 30 April 2010 09:26 (fourteen years ago) link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/tracerhand/aniPartyTime.gif
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 30 April 2010 09:27 (fourteen years ago) link
that is my summary of this thread so far
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 30 April 2010 09:29 (fourteen years ago) link
still waiting for that to start moving tbh.
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 09:41 (fourteen years ago) link
I think Ralph saying he is good at something would be much more directly opposed to the teacher saying he's bad at something. Ralph's line is a direct response to teacher's comment, he even repeats the word "sleep" after she says it. If, like you say, what Ralph means is that he enjoys being a Viking in his dreams, that would not be a direct response to Ms. Hoover's line - enjoying of being a Viking has nothing to do with Ms. Hoover's criticism.
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 10:13 (fourteen years ago) link
Not a direct response, because the point is that there really is no direct response to somebody telling you to go to sleep.
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:17 (fourteen years ago) link
― tomofthenest, Friday, April 30, 2010 8:47 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― Tuomas, Friday, April 30, 2010 8:58 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
brb, committing suicide
― brad whitford's impotent rage (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:21 (fourteen years ago) link
we are now basing our theses on the foundations of ralph speaking in norse metaphors, and the voice actor being just the right type of incompetent.
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:29 (fourteen years ago) link
We are?
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 10:30 (fourteen years ago) link
no what we're doing is checking the pilot light
― brad whitford's impotent rage (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:35 (fourteen years ago) link
Anyway, like I said above "That's where I'M the BEST!" is really not a super uncommon way of emphasizing words. As for the comment about the voice actor: all I wanted to say is that just because Tomofthenest has observed his kids saying things in a certain way doesn't meant the actress playing Ralph would say it the same way - it's not like kids in Simpsons always speak like real kids. More importantly, Tomofthenest's examples are not equivalent to what Ralph says. Like I already explained above, the reason he puts emphasis on the "I'M" is because he is answering to Ms. Hoover's criticism.
― Tuomas, Friday, 30 April 2010 10:35 (fourteen years ago) link
(x-post)
I thought you died.
Next week- An analysis of the development of the phrase 'Oh My God- They killed Kenny!' through the years, and the effect it has had on national debt.
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:38 (fourteen years ago) link
When Archie tells Edith to stifle herself, why doesn't he just say "shh?" It would take less time and have the same neat meaning & result.
― brad whitford's impotent rage (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:42 (fourteen years ago) link
Fonzie's "aaaay": elongated "hey" or primal utterance?
― brad whitford's impotent rage (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:43 (fourteen years ago) link
second one
― I Think Ur a Viking (dyao), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:48 (fourteen years ago) link
oh hell no son
― brad whitford's impotent rage (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:48 (fourteen years ago) link
Multiple xps to dyao re USA public schol.grammar instruction: it's likely that the Simpsons' writing team went through.the same system!
― huh! tikuuta. (kingkongvsgodzilla), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:49 (fourteen years ago) link
that's unpossible
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:50 (fourteen years ago) link
eh kkvg the simpsons writers were all at least in their 20s when the wrote the episode - I think the decline in the teaching of formal grammar is a pretty recent pedagogical thing? at least that's the impression that I get
― I Think Ur a Viking (dyao), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:54 (fourteen years ago) link
I mean, when they went to school, grammar was still probably being taught. and there's no telling how many of them went to private schools either, as it's usually ivy league grads who do the writing for those shows.
― I Think Ur a Viking (dyao), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:55 (fourteen years ago) link
anyway who cares what the writers intended when they wrote it - authorial intent is a false north star
― I Think Ur a Viking (dyao), Friday, 30 April 2010 10:59 (fourteen years ago) link
it isn't when the question is "what is meant by this joke?"
― brad whitford's impotent rage (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 30 April 2010 11:07 (fourteen years ago) link
like the idea that because texts are elusive, what the teller of a joke means by the joke isn't relevant, this is some waste of a critical theory class or two right there
― brad whitford's impotent rage (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 30 April 2010 11:08 (fourteen years ago) link
noone knows what the writer of the joke meant! it's not a given
― I Think Ur a Viking (dyao), Friday, 30 April 2010 11:11 (fourteen years ago) link
language is a cracked pot upon which we bang out tunes for bears to dance to when we wish to conjure pity from the stars imo
― I Think Ur a Viking (dyao), Friday, 30 April 2010 11:13 (fourteen years ago) link
agree with dyao there, but we really should have a discussion about why joeks are funny itt
― just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 30 April 2010 11:18 (fourteen years ago) link
no it's not a given but when the writer of a joke says "this is what I meant by it" it has considerably more force than when the writer of a short story/novel/poem says "this is the meaning of the text"
authorial absence is considerably & reliably more overstated than authorial intent
btw you asked for this so no complaints
― brad whitford's impotent rage (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 30 April 2010 11:25 (fourteen years ago) link
also, the meaning of the joke is that ralph dreams that he is a viking
point to where the writer of the joke says "this is what I meant"
― I Think Ur a Viking (dyao), Friday, 30 April 2010 11:27 (fourteen years ago) link