Doctor Who 2008: Sontarans cometh, RTD Ood 'ave 'im etc.

Yeah, the lovey dovey nonsense is total barfo. Total audience indulgence.

I think the "twee, love nonsense" has only worked well once, in the Silence in the Library(and whatever the second part was called) two parter. And in this case because it had been inextricably linked with the mechanics of time travel and therefore the very particular problem the Doctor has with meeting people for the first time who have already met him.

In this case inference might appear to be that the sole reason the Doctor takes up with River Song is that he knows that he's partially responsible for her death (or whatever) and is only be working to keep his personal timeline in order; rather than from any sense of emotional attachment. Which to my mind would totally invalidate the surface twee- ness of the romance and would also make the Doctor appear to be rather more of a manipulative bastard than either Moffat or Rusty would like to have us think.

I would have thought the anti-emo faction would be appeased by Catherine Tate's total lack of romantic interest in the Doctor.

Yeah WTF is up with this 'every character fancies the Doctor' thing when Donna so clearly didn't. Although I'm a bit more bothered by "this amazing, amazing man" cobblers these days, it's like yeah we get it now.

Human Nature/Family of Blood and the Girl in the Fireplace did the twee love nonsense thing much better than Rusty has in any of his stories. I'm not opposed to it on principle, but he seems to think emotional = gushing and cloying.

I quite like the Rusty gambit of having all his human characters constantly phoning up their relatives/loved ones in the middle of giant space battles and being like "I'm OK, just hold tight, I'll see you soon!"

I don't like that.

But that's how people would be, wouldn't it?

No. They would be desperate and practically speechless perhaps?

It's one of my least favourite things, the way the Earth people always barge back in with this bathos re. 'you may have just saved the universe, but now you've got to do the washing up'. Uh-uh.

I suppose that's very English. "Don't get above your station, young lady. You're still one of US you know!"

no it's rubbish

I don't know, I like how peoples' personal lives interweave with this parallel crazy space life they lead.

it was good in Time Bandits

(xxxp) It *was* refreshing that Donna didn't fancy the doctor, but the writers then felt the need to point out every five minutes that she definitely definitely didn't fancy him, which was almost as irritating.

i think Donna should've at least got a quick bunk-up with Capn Jack before having her memory wiped

DG speaks wisely.

Time Bandits was great but I don't think the ordinary human characters were part of the fantasy sequences? Or it was all a dream anyway?

I quite enjoyed this. I didn't mind Donna in the end. I thought the extra Doctor thing was a little cheesy, maybe he'll go insane and conquer the parallel universe, that'd be cool. And, I guess it's a way of keeping Tennant's in the show.

Of course it wasn't because his parents got burnt up by a stray piece of evil.

xpost

either way, this show needs a minotaur.

OK, too long since I've seen Time Bandits. You are making me think that the ending must be terribly sad.

The kids was pleased, his parents were mean and rational.

i thought the Time Banits ending was a bit sad, and unnerving. but great in memory so too afraid to rewatch in case it seems shit.

It stands up to rewatching.

But in the old days, even though you knew the Doc was never going to die, you always bought the peril of the cliffhanger.

It's not so much about the peril, but the "how's he gonna get out of that?" factor. In which case the last cliffhanger (even though the resolution was a groaner) worked pretty well.

I don't know if it's been pointed out above, but I loved the implication of the Catherine Tate ending for the viewer, like "Hey, I guess I could've gone on an adventure with the Doctor, but forgotten all about it."

Setting aside Adam because he doesn't really count:

Rose: loves the Doctor, I guess the Doctor loves her???? haven't seen the last episode yet
Mickey: loves Rose (the Doctor proxy), Rose doesn't love him
Jack: loves the Doctor, the Doctor doesn't love him
Martha: loves the Doctor, the Doctor doesn't love her
Donna (controversial opinion ahoy): doesn't love the Doctor, THE DOCTOR LOVES HER

I agree with your dislike of this whole recurrent motif. But:

1. Mickey: loves Rose (the Doctor proxy)
well, that may be the case here (I don't know the programme well enough to say), but it certainly doesn't follow as a general rule. Being in love with B who loves C may lead you to hate, or at least resent C, not love them.

2. Jack: loves the Doctor
- what is the evidence for this - is the character supposed to be gay? I do realize that the actor is.

I'm talking more about the whole "love is the defining characteristic of all of these characters" thing than I am talking about people specifically loving the Doctor.

Jack pretty much swings every which way he can and has professed massive carnal desire for the Doctor in the past that has been tempered with longing forlorn puppy-dog looks a la Martha every time she see the Doctor.

I agree there's too much wuvvy wuvvy, but I'm not sure a sexually indifferent Doctor is the solution. Hopefully Moffatt (of all people) should be able to integrate this sort of thing with less cringe.

Fundamentally, though, it's not that I have a problem with the Doctor having love interests/fancies -- I mean, being repressed would be just as weird -- but I just don't buy the romance between Rose and the Doc. Their kiss was just kind of, "Really?"

Jack pretty much swings every which way he can and has professed massive carnal desire for the Doctor anything with a pulse. In the past that has been tempered with longing forlorn puppy-dog looks a la Martha every time she see the Doctor.

^fixed

, it's not that I have a problem with the Doctor having love interests/fancies -- I mean, being repressed would be just as weird -- but I just don't buy the romance between Rose and the Doc. Their kiss was just kind of, "Really?"

Yeah, it was kind of like Ann on Arrested Development - "Her?"

I really liked Rose during the first new season of Doctor Who, but now it's hard to think of anyone that's more overrated/annoying.

But the real best bit was when Wilf headed a small wicker ball thing across the room to celebrate the Earth/universe being saved.

A visit to Charlie Chaplin next series?

Dudes. Some of you guys are amazingly negative. Sure there's continuity problems, sure there's a shit episode every once in a while. But overall the series has been fantastic. I'm a big fan of Buffy/Angel/Firefly/Alias/Lost/BSG etc. so it's not like I don't like shows that do put in insane amounts of effort towards continuity/character and plot development, but this show is warm and fun for the most part with some special occasional, thought-provoking, fantastic stuff. You can have your Blinks mixed in with your Sontaran Experiments. The show isn't perfect, but I'm not sure what more you can really expect for such a broad audience show.

Call me crazy, but I think the season had the most consistent writing episode to episode since the Eccleston season.

In short, internet nerdity, darn it to heck.

I think aldo was this nerdy before the internet, to be fair :-)

I don't share this feeling re. Rose. It's Billie Piper, for heaven's sake. She's a very attractive woman. What's not to buy?

Rose is whiny and rubbish, regardless of how attractive the actress playing her is.

I like the show, I just wish it wasn't all about how everyone in the universe wants to toss the Doctor's salad.

The Rose Doctor relationship is by its very nature more complex because it went from amazing brooding mentor (Eccleston) to sexy bloke. She forced his regeneration so feels a touch responsible, but also was rewarded for her hard work with Northern Doctor with Tennant. The only other companion who has a similar arc is Sarah Jane (wheras Peri comes close but drew the dud short straw of Baker C).

The beauty of the Doctor Donna relationship was almost as if after Rose and Martha, he had learned his lesson.

Of course there is another reading that Tennant/Tate Doctor is being punished for genocide with a lifetime of living with lispy Piper.

The other interesting thing is while the parallel universe is locked blah blah blah, it means that Tennant can always do a future comeback for the odd crossover episode.

Right the aldo. I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way, I love reading your insanely detailed posts and missed them when you weren't on this thread. BUT.

Firstly, can I just say something about spoilers? I don't think I've said anything actually spoilery on this thread - maybe the closest I came was when I suggested people might want to look out for Julian Bleach's appearance on Torchwood - because as far as I'm concerned once an actor (in this case John Barrowman) has appeared on a TV chat show and said "I'm in the last two episodes of the series" I can't see how that doesn't mean the news is out there for everyone. If there's as tight a control on information as is strongly implied then him saying that on the show was okayed by the production team for release. Ditto David Morrissey in an obviously posed photograph from APRIL upthread in the Daily Mail link - which is totally different from Sun 'exclusives' with 'leaked' photos - but see also how I'm not talking about which Big Finish audio his character is allegedly based on in case it gives anything away. Or which returning characters from 'Classic' Who are in S2 of the Sarah Jane Adventures until it's announced (I think it could well be the Series wind-down NEWS story). That's the stance I'd like to keep up tbh, giving little dribbles of hints without saying anything but talking freely about things that are approved by the production office to talk freely about.

I don't like spoilers. They actually do spoil my enjoyment of tv shows. I just much prefer seeing things fresh, as far as possible. So I try to avoid them. You seem to think that, if something was mentioned in a 200 word article on page twelve of the Daily Mail four months ago, well then, EVERYBODY know that already, surely!? So it's fine to mention it to anyone else, who doesn't (for whatever reason), whether they want to or not.

Now sure, I could just avoid reading any threads about any telly ever. But another thing I really enjoy about tv is speculation! All that stuff we were doing here last week, where people were trying to guess how the regeneration would pan out, was LOADS of fun! I can't help thinking that, if you'd been around, you'd have sniffed at us all and said something like "pff, EVERYONE knows he's not going to regenerate because he's been seen dressed as the doctor filming the Christmas special in Cardiff" and then...well, you'd have killed that speculation, and stopped the fun.

Another way of looking at it: how to cause the least negative feeling in the world! If you tell me about something that's going to happen, that removes a bit of future enjoyment from my life. If you DON'T mention something which is going to happen, and which you know about, does that really remove much enjoyement from yours? Really? Surely it doesn't (unless you have some warped "haha, I get off on being more knowledgeable than other people about this, and letting them know that I am!" thing going on). So why is it such a big deal to ask you not to do it?

I just think "spoiler" means "anything which hasn't been screened yet".

Anyway, I don't think we're going to agree. And I also think it's something which affects other ILE threads, not just the Doctor Who ones. So maybe we should let the community decide!

Ergo:
POLL: What constitues a "spoiler"? JimD and aldo disagree. Take sides here!

Frankly, I don't care how many other people noticed this although almost all of fandom did, oh no, wait, Rusty's done a real life handwave and decided they're not fans. So do fans count or not? If so, why bollocks up something simple? If not, why throw in references to the First Doctor's descriptions of Gallifrey? Or SPACE CRABS? You can't have it both ways.

That's a really good point.

Yes, er, you can. I'm sure there are some nerdy Who fans who don't really mind much about continuity, change in tone, etc. (NB, when I say "some nerdy Who fans," I mean me.)

(i.e. nerdy old-Who fans)

I know we're all on an internet message board, but that doesn't mean we also choose to keep up with all interviews and such things about upcoming seasons of shows. Really, I like discussing shows as they're happening, but I don't understand why people seek out spoilers - it's deliberately taking away a portion of enjoyment from watching television. I didn't know of any of those things aldo wrote of.

Basically what happens a lot in these threads is that someone will say something spoilery and then I have to avoid the thread, since I really don't want to know these things, until the end of the season - which is a real bummer. Particularly on these boards, because it's just one thread for that entire show/season.

I mean, fuck, did someone just post some Dark Knight spoilers in the voting thread? I caught a glimpse and closed the window pretty fast.

^^^ This is me too, sadly. I've dipped my toe in the thread towards the end of the series cos I've really been enjoying it, but I don't read newspapers or Radio Times's or visit fansites or click on Wikipedia cos I don't wanna know what's going to happen in something I haven't watched yet. I don't even watch the trailers most of the time cos of pointless spoilers. I guess the answer is either a separate spoiler and non-spoiler thread or just not bothering to read this one. Tho it feels like it has been reasonably spoiler-free this year.

Jim, I will buy you a drink next time I see you. I know exactly what you mean but I fear I am too far gone to turn around. I can't back out fo this now though, lest I become Kylie. I hope you understand.

The other interesting thing is while the parallel universe is locked blah blah blah, it means that Tennant can always do a future comeback for the odd crossover episode.

I thought of this too. And now that his character can age, Tennant can go back to the well whenever the show wants him. (What's his name, by the way? Is Rose going to keep calling him "The Doctor"?) It's a nice move to keep Tennant on tap as it were ahem.

As for the Doctor wuv, c'mon he's David Tennant. It would be strange if everyone DIDN'T have a crush on him.

Davros: 'You are the destroyer of worlds!!'

THE DOCTOR = BOB

this is actually the 2nd part of the name of my cat

i don't know how to feel about this final episode :/

i guess, fine

kind of creeped out by surrogate doctor kissing rose
like having a supercrush on the doctor is fun n all but wld you really want something to come of it in reality?? i mean, part of his crushworthyness is b/c he is the ever-tortured all-knowing powerful doctor one can never really have

very sad abt donna's return to regular life - did anyone mention her ring yet? and why it was glinting? felt purposeful. but maybe not.
the memory wipe made me a have a sad wall-e moment

DON'T SPOILER WALL-E ON THE DOCTOR WHO THREAD!!!!