that thing white ppl do when they disparage 'white ppl'

lol, i'm not yelling that the thread should get back on track or something. i think it's relevant that this comes up in this thread. like: "why do some white ppl disparage other white ppl," makes sense would culminate in a discussion about the Wire half-way down the page. cause, ya know, ways of talking about race in America (on ILX?).

Oh, that's a good point, Dan.

have u guys seen the bottle openers they sell overseas

Which I wanted to post before things slid by, but I never meant to distinguish different kinds of suffering as more or less valid than others. The scope is certainly different, though. News stories versus numbers.

Also - "what's your point?" is not being used sincerely. It's like a kid saying "but why" again and again.

nah, i meant that quite sincerely. you obviously put a lot of thought into your generalization and now i'm just wondering what you're going to do with it.

why did thread about white ppl disparaging other white ppl turn into a thread about "black culture" and now crime statistics?

― Mordy, Friday, April 23, 2010 5:28 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

... which, to put it rather crudely, is something you'd only really feel the need to do if you were aware of, and felt guilty about, your own white privilege.
... any discussion of which will necessarily have to touch on certain structural features of modern american society.

that's the point?

Oh, iiijjj, I think I'm going to drop it to take a nap. Not to be dismissive of anyone, but for practical reasons.

I think the way white & black feed into each other is interesting and it's just something I like to talk about, but it's easier to do with someone in person.

really? i think it's what people do if they don't feel too guilty, they're pointing out someone else who is guiltier/whiter than they are. can be pretty annoying though i've done it. i'm v v v white btw

though a lady at work did say i was "thug"

btw I only posted crime stats cuz I wanted to find a concrete middle ground between bamcquern's meaningless 'black majority' and hi dere's anecdotal "no one in my family outside of one urban area". no, 1/3 isn't a majority by any means, but it's still a distressing number.

i'm distressed.

you're maybe missing the point that this isn't about "disparaging other white ppl" so much as "taking an ironic distance towards one's own self-acknowledged whiteness in order to harmlessly mock it"

... which, to put it rather crudely, is something you'd only really feel the need to do if you were aware of, and felt guilty about, your own white privilege.
... any discussion of which will necessarily have to touch on certain structural features of modern american society.

Well... yes and no. I don't see why black people automatically have to be dragged into a conversation about why white people make fun of themselves. There are a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with black people (interesting that everyone jumped on and ran with the "liberal guilt" side but totally ignored the "redneck humor" side; it seems it's easier for people to handwave self-deprecating humor when it's done to highlight and elevate how much more enlightened you are now than it is to confront and acknowledge humor that points out all of the warts on your body).

I only say "black majority" because Houston Baker, et al. say it. I thought it had common currency, so yeesh.

see i'm not sure if bamcquern is right with all of his crude generalizations but his observations are preferable to just mumbling about problematics and avoiding any consideration of nonwhite ppl as having some wilful agency determining their cultural outlook beyond the history of their oppression, which seems to be a fairly common timidity among american left-'white ppl'

they seem to be afraid they will be seen as eliding the contribution of white racist ppl (govt etc) to poverty, incarceration rates etc among nonwhite ppl, which oughtn't to be the case if their rhetorical poise is up to the ask

whether bamquern's is, i dunno, but that's a very profound and interesting question in itself

it seems it's easier for people to handwave self-deprecating humor when it's done to highlight and elevate how much more enlightened you are now than it is to confront and acknowledge humor that points out all of the warts on your body).

I had a long argument with my lol black friend about that Tiger Woods woodpile cartoon when he said he didn't think it was racist if there was some truth to the joke.

... which, to put it rather crudely, is something you'd only really feel the need to do if you were aware of, and felt guilty about, your own white privilege.
... any discussion of which will necessarily have to touch on certain structural features of modern american society.

It's odd to me that often identity turns around negativity. Black people have the history of racism and enslavement, Irish people their oppression by the Brits, Poles the animosity towards them both as slavs but especially as Catholics (at the beginning at least), etc... My ancestors may have been the white people who were doing the hating and the oppression but not suffering from anything worse than having to live amongst inferior races and suffering immigrants to come and screw up our little paradise or Indians encumbering the land that God intended for us so we (or at least I) don't have much of a sense of 'white culture' apart from its racism, its grim religiosity and its bland food so I don't really identify with my Anglo-American side very much or feel much attachment to it except maybe to a certain strain of American liberalism and a respect for the Common Law.

you're maybe missing the point that this isn't about "disparaging other white ppl" so much as "taking an ironic distance towards one's own self-acknowledged whiteness in order to harmlessly mock it"

this is pretty otm

Crude generalizations - 1 part laziness, 1 part presumptuousness, 1 part typing on tiny netbook keyboard without a mouse.

you're maybe missing the point that this isn't about "disparaging other white ppl" so much as "taking an ironic distance towards one's own self-acknowledged whiteness in order to harmlessly mock it"

and simultaneously disavowing their commonality with mnstrm 'white ppl', in many cases

Michael White - I think it's inevitable that things get defined negatively.

(interesting that everyone jumped on and ran with the "liberal guilt" side but totally ignored the "redneck humor" side;

Larry the Cable Guy or Jeff Foxworthy or whatever = sympathetic mockery of traits presumably shared by audience and performer
"that thing white ppl do" = please don't associate me with the target of my withering progressive scorn

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2009/06/stuff-white-ppl-like.jpg

amon you're capable of so much better

and simultaneously disavowing their commonality with mnstrm 'white ppl', in many cases

My problem is less w/white people and more w/mainstream

cosign xp

i think bernard snowy can read nakhchivan's mind

who is nakhchivan

xpost I knew you would

that's cuz they're totally different things! (and while I can't claim to be able to read the original poster's mind, I think only one of them is "that thing white ppl do")

Larry the Cable Guy or Jeff Foxworthy or whatever = sympathetic mockery of traits presumably shared by audience and performer

thankfully i'm not american, so i haven't heard of any of those white ppl and am completely unaware of whatever tradition they belong to

nothing wrong with talking about 'problematics'

On zing but otherwise would post Doing That Thing You Do movie poster

you know you are a white person when you post to ilx

i'm inuit btw

bernie you were right in saying that americans would be well-served to focus on issues of class and not race, but until there can be a greater degree of separation between the two, what difference does even it make? until such time as it does happen, whites don't necessarily need to feel guilty about white privilege but what they DO need to do, and what guilt can be a very effective albeit prob unhealthy catalyst for, is spending a tenth of the time they devote to being cute about it on the internet to attempting to enact some sort of tangible change promoting diversity and social justice through opportunities for the more vulnerable classes/races, such as signing the dream act petition

I forgot this was a poll.

which type of white ppl are we talking about again?

the european ones

they are pinkish yellow and they disparage other pinkish yellow people

alright I gotta go smoke weed and do dishes but before I leave I just want to say: my use of the word "harmless" upthread was very deliberate, and meant to convey that "that thing" entails very little risk for the white ppl who engage in it, because it's basically masturbation

xp dude I signed the dream act petition already, chill!

if you are inuit in the kitchen, pakistani in the bedroom, and peruvian in the living room, what are you in the bathroom?

I was #29,044 to sign that petition

sweet thanks

You may say that iiiijjjj's a dreamer
But iiiijjjj's not the only one

haha sorry, didn't mean to seem so defensive -- I really do appreciate your persistent nagging throughout this thread, and I hope it's gotten more people than just me and hi dere to sign

white basketball players amirite

farts

"Larry the Cable Guy or Jeff Foxworthy or whatever = sympathetic mockery of traits presumably shared by audience and performer"

Jeff Foxworthy was some white collar middle-management telecom engineer before mustaching up. Similar story with "Larry"
These dudes are definitely slumming.

^ classist

i wld nvr disparage white ppl