Doctor Who 2008: Sontarans cometh, RTD Ood 'ave 'im etc.

I'll admit that my main reaction to those characters was "who the fuck are Mickey and, Jackie is it?"

damn noobs

Think the main point of bringing Mickey back was a set-up for Torchwood or whatever happens next. Jackie was 100% pointless though.

TBH the only ones I really want to see again in Who are Jack and Sarah-Jane. Jack seems too popular not to bring back, especially since Moffatt had a big hand in creating him.

the story i heard somewhere re Grainer and Derbyshire. having heard the finished piece he asked 'did i really write that?' and she said 'most of it'

http://www.nndb.com/people/685/000099388/

and this from mark ayres:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mark_Ayres/DWTheme.htm#Original

"Delia Derbyshire recalls that Ron Grainer was delighted with the result and, realising that the music worked perfectly well as it stood, abandoned his original plan of overdubbing a small instrumental ensemble (as in Giants of Steam). Recognising Delia's immense contribution, he also suggested splitting his performance royalty income with her, but BBC bureaucracy meant that this was not possible."

"Doctor Who: Proms Cutaway" is a "mini-episode" of the British science fiction television series Doctor Who. It is due to be broadcast alongside the Doctor Who prom on 27 July 2008.[1]

According to Russell T. Davies, the action will take place on the TARDIS and will feature a "special returning guest star."

sounds a lot like the children in need minisode.

yep. kudos on 'minisode' tho.

Well, I don't know what to say. I'm not TOO worried about the continuity thing; it all falls apart, anyway, with the "destroying the Daleks throughout all time" thing. I mean, you can excuse anything with that device.

I found the episode a mess. Was particularly disappointed with the regeneration. I laughed out loud at the gall of it, and not in support. It pulled the rug out from under all the rabid theorists, I suppose.

I believe it's mainly crash-bang-wallop these days because most stories are done in one episode. There's not the pacing of Old-Who. Best bit of pacing has been Utopia, building to the most exciting 15 minutes of television ever (probably).

the problem with slowing the pace is the rubbishness of most cliffhanger scenarios...tho you could argue that with such a loyal audience exciting cliffhangers for multi-part episodes wouldn't actually be necessary.

But in the old days, even though you knew the Doc was never going to die, you always bought the peril of the cliffhanger.

I'm not advocating a slowing of pace, mind you, I'm just considering the price.

I was talking with a friend over the weekend about how nu-Who would be so much more fun without the twee love nonsense; the writers seem to lean way too heavily on it, making their stories come across like they all want to bone the Doctor into oblivion. It's one of those things where using it as an initial motif for one companion was fine, particularly when it was unrequited, but then continuing to hammer you over the head with it with almost every companion who crosses the Doctor's path starts to come across as lazy fanwank.

Which, coincidentally, is all Martha is left with.

at least that was a reasonable result of making the Doctor 'hott' - this seems like something difficult to move away from now. xp

x-post: I agree, it is very bad for everyone to be supposedly after the Doc. One pairing-off is quite enough.

This is the 14th or 400th reiteration or whatever, but it definitely had the "give the audience everything they want!" feel to it. I was definitely cringing during parts of it.

People say this series is more like Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel than the old Doctor Who, and I agree to a point. But I do remember Buffy/Angel had these storyline episodes and then random throwaway episodes for fun/filler ... just feels like all of Doctor Who is just those filler ones except the last few episodes where everything kind-of falls into place for 10 minutes. I mean, it's entertaining and all. Also I blame my ex for putting me through every single episode of Buffy/Angel in existence so that I know this.

Yeah, the lovey dovey nonsense is total barfo. Total audience indulgence.

I think the "twee, love nonsense" has only worked well once, in the Silence in the Library(and whatever the second part was called) two parter. And in this case because it had been inextricably linked with the mechanics of time travel and therefore the very particular problem the Doctor has with meeting people for the first time who have already met him.

In this case inference might appear to be that the sole reason the Doctor takes up with River Song is that he knows that he's partially responsible for her death (or whatever) and is only be working to keep his personal timeline in order; rather than from any sense of emotional attachment. Which to my mind would totally invalidate the surface twee- ness of the romance and would also make the Doctor appear to be rather more of a manipulative bastard than either Moffat or Rusty would like to have us think.

I would have thought the anti-emo faction would be appeased by Catherine Tate's total lack of romantic interest in the Doctor.

Yeah WTF is up with this 'every character fancies the Doctor' thing when Donna so clearly didn't. Although I'm a bit more bothered by "this amazing, amazing man" cobblers these days, it's like yeah we get it now.

Human Nature/Family of Blood and the Girl in the Fireplace did the twee love nonsense thing much better than Rusty has in any of his stories. I'm not opposed to it on principle, but he seems to think emotional = gushing and cloying.

I quite like the Rusty gambit of having all his human characters constantly phoning up their relatives/loved ones in the middle of giant space battles and being like "I'm OK, just hold tight, I'll see you soon!"

I don't like that.

But that's how people would be, wouldn't it?

No. They would be desperate and practically speechless perhaps?

It's one of my least favourite things, the way the Earth people always barge back in with this bathos re. 'you may have just saved the universe, but now you've got to do the washing up'. Uh-uh.

I suppose that's very English. "Don't get above your station, young lady. You're still one of US you know!"

no it's rubbish

I don't know, I like how peoples' personal lives interweave with this parallel crazy space life they lead.

it was good in Time Bandits

(xxxp) It *was* refreshing that Donna didn't fancy the doctor, but the writers then felt the need to point out every five minutes that she definitely definitely didn't fancy him, which was almost as irritating.

i think Donna should've at least got a quick bunk-up with Capn Jack before having her memory wiped

DG speaks wisely.

Time Bandits was great but I don't think the ordinary human characters were part of the fantasy sequences? Or it was all a dream anyway?

I quite enjoyed this. I didn't mind Donna in the end. I thought the extra Doctor thing was a little cheesy, maybe he'll go insane and conquer the parallel universe, that'd be cool. And, I guess it's a way of keeping Tennant's in the show.

Of course it wasn't because his parents got burnt up by a stray piece of evil.

xpost

either way, this show needs a minotaur.

OK, too long since I've seen Time Bandits. You are making me think that the ending must be terribly sad.

The kids was pleased, his parents were mean and rational.

i thought the Time Banits ending was a bit sad, and unnerving. but great in memory so too afraid to rewatch in case it seems shit.

It stands up to rewatching.

But in the old days, even though you knew the Doc was never going to die, you always bought the peril of the cliffhanger.

It's not so much about the peril, but the "how's he gonna get out of that?" factor. In which case the last cliffhanger (even though the resolution was a groaner) worked pretty well.

I don't know if it's been pointed out above, but I loved the implication of the Catherine Tate ending for the viewer, like "Hey, I guess I could've gone on an adventure with the Doctor, but forgotten all about it."

Setting aside Adam because he doesn't really count:

Rose: loves the Doctor, I guess the Doctor loves her???? haven't seen the last episode yet
Mickey: loves Rose (the Doctor proxy), Rose doesn't love him
Jack: loves the Doctor, the Doctor doesn't love him
Martha: loves the Doctor, the Doctor doesn't love her
Donna (controversial opinion ahoy): doesn't love the Doctor, THE DOCTOR LOVES HER

I agree with your dislike of this whole recurrent motif. But:

1. Mickey: loves Rose (the Doctor proxy)
well, that may be the case here (I don't know the programme well enough to say), but it certainly doesn't follow as a general rule. Being in love with B who loves C may lead you to hate, or at least resent C, not love them.

2. Jack: loves the Doctor
- what is the evidence for this - is the character supposed to be gay? I do realize that the actor is.

I'm talking more about the whole "love is the defining characteristic of all of these characters" thing than I am talking about people specifically loving the Doctor.

Jack pretty much swings every which way he can and has professed massive carnal desire for the Doctor in the past that has been tempered with longing forlorn puppy-dog looks a la Martha every time she see the Doctor.

I agree there's too much wuvvy wuvvy, but I'm not sure a sexually indifferent Doctor is the solution. Hopefully Moffatt (of all people) should be able to integrate this sort of thing with less cringe.

Fundamentally, though, it's not that I have a problem with the Doctor having love interests/fancies -- I mean, being repressed would be just as weird -- but I just don't buy the romance between Rose and the Doc. Their kiss was just kind of, "Really?"

Jack pretty much swings every which way he can and has professed massive carnal desire for the Doctor anything with a pulse. In the past that has been tempered with longing forlorn puppy-dog looks a la Martha every time she see the Doctor.

^fixed

, it's not that I have a problem with the Doctor having love interests/fancies -- I mean, being repressed would be just as weird -- but I just don't buy the romance between Rose and the Doc. Their kiss was just kind of, "Really?"

Yeah, it was kind of like Ann on Arrested Development - "Her?"

I really liked Rose during the first new season of Doctor Who, but now it's hard to think of anyone that's more overrated/annoying.

But the real best bit was when Wilf headed a small wicker ball thing across the room to celebrate the Earth/universe being saved.

A visit to Charlie Chaplin next series?

Dudes. Some of you guys are amazingly negative. Sure there's continuity problems, sure there's a shit episode every once in a while. But overall the series has been fantastic. I'm a big fan of Buffy/Angel/Firefly/Alias/Lost/BSG etc. so it's not like I don't like shows that do put in insane amounts of effort towards continuity/character and plot development, but this show is warm and fun for the most part with some special occasional, thought-provoking, fantastic stuff. You can have your Blinks mixed in with your Sontaran Experiments. The show isn't perfect, but I'm not sure what more you can really expect for such a broad audience show.

Call me crazy, but I think the season had the most consistent writing episode to episode since the Eccleston season.

In short, internet nerdity, darn it to heck.

I think aldo was this nerdy before the internet, to be fair :-)

I don't share this feeling re. Rose. It's Billie Piper, for heaven's sake. She's a very attractive woman. What's not to buy?

Rose is whiny and rubbish, regardless of how attractive the actress playing her is.