come anticipate 'Brick' with me!

Yeah I'm gonna have to join the haters on this one. The trailer got my girlfriend and I so hyped up, but when we finally rented it we were both pretty disappointed. I get that the stylized dialogue was sort of the point, but after Veronica Mars proved that you can do high school noir while still letting the characters talk like chatty modern teenagers, it just felt so ham-fisted and overcooked. I mean, I went to a high school were small-time dealers beat up and killed each other over drugs, so the plot didn't seem too far-fetched, they just made it feel ridiculous with poor exectution. And it felt very much like the rookie director's first effort that it was, hopefully his next one will be better.

it felt very much like the rookie director's first effort that it was

yes, but i'm kinda thrilled by that

hopefully his next one will be better

fingers crossed

RUFFALO

I wanna see John and Fluffy Bear At the Movies now.

roffalo

The Bros Bloomps?

I was all about this movie fwiw

John Justen and Fluffy Bear at the movies is in preproduction at the moment, but prominent names have been attatched to the project.

Wow, I'm also surprised there's a hater contingent for this one. The complaint that doesn't really make sense to me is Shakey's:

If you aren't gonna have the characters operate in any of the standard way teenagers do, or have their world bear any resemblance to teenage life and motives and concerns...

This is weird to me, since so much of the obvious surface-level fun and recognition of the thing comes from the way the high-school setting is already noir. Someone's already mentioned the "where have you been eating lunch" slang, which is a good example of that -- but it goes beyond the slang, really, into the idea of high schools as microcosms where there really is an importance to where you're eating lunch, with complex heirarchies and subterranean groups and social scheming that's as noir as anything from the get-go. Most of the great moments of crossover and recognition come from that, with the assistant principal scene probably chief among them -- the ass VP is the police of the high school world, the disciplinarian, the one adult who's actually (in the real world!) trying to keep track of how a high school's worlds operate (they have informants and shit!), and so it turns out to be a rather narrow exaggeration to have one taking on that role, right? I can't figure out why this bothered Shakey, rather than pretty well delivering the chuckly recognition it seemed meant for.

There was a review somewhere that basically said that this movie has no idea who their audience is which is probably otm. Most teenagers wouldn't get the Hammett/Chandler references and the people who do get it probably wouldn't get why they have to be placed in the context of a modern high school. My first impression was that they were pretty much saying that noir-speak is a lot like teenage-speak - impenetrable unless you're part of that world. Nabisco otm, it is pretty clear that Brick (and Veronica Mars as mentioned upthread) is basically pointing out that high-school is very noir. When I saw this, it really got me wondering why nobody thought about doing this earlier.

I kind of liked it, mostly because it is so obviously done by an amateur, you could see just how hard they were trying. And there were a lot of fun moments - how could you not appreciate all the physical comedy in this? All the fighting scenes were great! Plus, I liked the dorky kid who plays JGL's sidekick/man-on-the-inside but then again, I would.

I thought it was pretty well directed, though it's not like I really know about those things. The previously mentioned chase/trip scene stands out, as does the visual concept of the pin's dark basement with almost no furniture and the really low ceiling.

People think too much about stuff.

nabisco 8080 -- it's much more realistic than the obligatory 'newcomer is introduced to the taxonomy of highschool subcultures' lunch-room scene in every other teen movie

EVEN "TEN THINGS I HATE ABOUT YOU"!?!?!?

How many times has Joseph Gordon-Leavitt been introduced to the taxonomy of high school subcultures in a lunchroom?

the most obnoxious Sundance Concept Movie I've seen yet.

as opposed to regular Sundance, which is just after-school specials with a dash of "quirky"?

n/a: don't get me wrong, I thought it was quite well-directed myself. I just meant amateur-ish in the sense that it felt like someone's first real movie. As in you could really see how much love the director had for it, it was clear that he had thought a lot about the camera angles and the sets and detail. It just felt like it was a little too detailed.

I didn't get the sense that these kids were actually in high school at all - you never see anybody in class, or doing homework, or really ever even hanging out with other groups of kids, or doing anything that high school kids usually spend their time doing. Instead, they do all sorts of things that adults would ostensibly notice and intervene in (fights, murders, drug dealing), yet there is no significant adult presence. There is no internal logic in operation beyond MUST SHOEHORN IN EVERY HAMMET/CHANDLER TROPE.

Haha wait Shakey is your complaint that the lack of adult presence was UNREALISTIC?

Instead, they do all sorts of things that adults would ostensibly notice and intervene in (fights, murders, drug dealing) (sex, house parties, not doing homework) yet there is no significant adult presence.

FIXED

plz don't get all hifalutin about shoehorning in tropes, it's v boring

PLEASE can we PLEASE not use Hammett & Chandler as interchangable figureheads

Brick is much more Chandler than Hammett anyway

I think it did a good job of conveying what high school felt like at times, while making me wish that's what it was actually like.

The druggies are doing pot behind the local coffeeshop, drama kids in lame high school theatre, Brendan talks about his English teacher with the Asst VP ("Tough teacher?" "Tough but fair."), the jock is bragging to everyone who would listen and Brendan's buddy hangs out in the library because his bus comes too early. What's not high school about it?!

Anyway, the Pin's mum serves them orange juice, completely doesn't notice that her kid is a big-time dealer = every oblivious suburban parent ever?

I mean, this movie is all about a very airy and improbably combination of forms and moods, it seems incredibly weird to think that anyone would expect it to operate in any kind of serious real-world way!

(My favorite aspect of that, BTW = drama-club femme fatale being in scene-appropriate costume for each appearance, despite said club clearly not staging full-dress performances of like four different productions in the same two days.)

Brick is much more Chandler than Hammett anyway

It seemed kind of Red Harvest-y to me, but I've never read any Chandler.

(incidentally, if I were going to read any Chandler, what should I read?)

The Big Sleep & The Long Goodbye are good points to start

2nd thought, go for Farewell, My Lovely over Long Goodbye

People think too much about stuff.

Sparkling.

Nabisco, I don't have a problem with real-world correspondences; the actors were just hopeless and the staging awkward, all matters of opinion.

Haha wait Shakey is your complaint that the lack of adult presence was UNREALISTIC?

no, like I said before my complaint is that the film tries to have it both ways - its basic trope (the dialogue and the plot) is totally implausible and unrealistic, but then it also acknowledges a recognizable and realistic teenage world when it suits it (the VP, the refs to "eating lunch" or whatever). I wished the film would pick one or the other - or warp the two together in a more interesting way - but the film engages in a continuity-of-convenience that I found irritating and very off-putting. (If there's a VP, where are the cops, for example? The police don't care that there's a dead body/girl missing? wtf)

(and Alfred's right the acting IS terrible, but that's a separate thing - none of the actors knew how to handle this kind of rapid-fire dialogue with any credibility)

Okay, Shakey, I suppose I can kinda see where you're headed, but I have to mention that your list there strikes me as totally bizarre! You're separating the dialogue and plot out as improbable noir and then claiming that it gets realistically teenaged when it suits it -- "the VP, the refs to 'eating lunch'." But of course the VP talks in the same improbably noir terms as everyone, and his plot function is total noir deal-making. The references to "eating lunch" are a part of the noir argot.

So I don't really follow this idea that it picks and chooses -- part of the fun for me was that they were very well wound together, and the fact that your examples of "recognizable / realistic" strike me as so noir-bound themselves just kinda reaffirms that to me, I guess.

My complaint with the movie is that I tried to watch it twice and couldn't get more than 20 minutes in without being aggravated to the point of turning it off.

I might make it through if there is an English subtitle option, because between the mumbling and shitty background noise/dialog ratio, I think I only caught about half of the lines.

look the reason I brought up the VP is cuz the presence of one adult authority figure implies the presence of an external, ostensibly real/adult world - and if there is an adult world aspect to the film, the rest of the movie doesn't make any sense. Where are the girl's parents - they didn't notice she's gone? The cops don't care that someone's moving coke at a high school? No adults care that none of these kids seem to spend any actual time in class/at school? No adult/parent notices the main character's getting the shit beaten out of him all the time? We're supposed to believe that the VP (and the mom) are the only other adults in this world?

NO WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE ANY OF THAT

as was pointed out, the VP is the cop who cuts deals with the PI. And like I said, the movie is pretty much just a noir, and parallels to "real" high school life will only trip you up if you start thinking of it as a teen movie. It's really not. It's a wink-winky clever-clever crime drama.

If you're going to be bothered by a plot point anywa: the cops WERE looking for the dead girl. The VP pretty much called Brendan and told him that the cops were coming around asking questions and that he knew about Brendan and his dead ex-gf, so he'd better come up with something or else he'd be going down himself.

I'm still not sure what makes Brick any less realistic than any other teen movie which involves crime. I mean, besides the dialogue, how is this any less realistic than say, Save the Last Dance? There were barely any parents in that one either, and in that, kids apparently spent all their time either in dance studios or shooting each other.

Everyone in this movie does mumble though.

er, anyway.

xpost

Dude, I'm sure her parents noticed she was gone by the time it was in the paper, you know? But it sounds like you just didn't feel like swallowing the VP's whole plot function in this -- as an analog for "Police Chief" and therefore "Authority Conduit for High-School Noir World," his whole function there was to call off the world of authority and then send it pressing back.

(No, this is not plausible in a real-world sense, but this is high school as the entirety of the world, more or less, which is why I'll find it kind of charmingly / dreamily appropriate that the VP exercises this power, rather than worrying around it -- I suppose to me this just isn't a "believe" movie, it's an "enjoy" movie. I'm not sure I've ever seen a "believe" movie, to be honest.)

Or anyway I can actually see why the big stretch with the VP would bother someone in this -- it kinda begs your indulgence on that point, I think -- but as for the type of movie this is, getting too worried over those points seems a little like watching City of Lost Children and being all "hey, where are Child Protective Services in this? and what kind of federal regulatory agency gave a zoning go-ahead for that evil laboratory?"

The cops don't care that someone's moving coke at a high school? No adults care that none of these kids seem to spend any actual time in class/at school? No adult/parent notices the main character's getting the shit beaten out of him all the time?

dude, did you GO to high school? ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPENED!

i mean--there were half a dozen coke dealers (some of whom were moving real weight) and SURE the cops would have cared if they had KNOWN about it--and like, how many times did you skip class in high school (not to mention that all of the action in the movie explicitly takes place AFTER SCHOOL or during LUNCH)?--and srsly i got in a couple fights in high school and my parents noticed and i just told them that i fell and stuff. not talking to your parents about trouble is pretty fucking standard at age 18

half a dozen coke dealers at my school, i mean

Could've worked as a flat-out comedy; the funny stuff is the best in it (Mom with the OJ, the way he baits the football player into the fight), but I had the feeling I was supposed to be moved occasionally, and also give a shit about characters besides JG-L.

If you want some high-school noir where the adult world is fully represented and a lunchroom scandal leads all the way to City Hall, stick with Veronica Mars

VM is insufficiently dreamy, I always thought -- I wouldn't have minded if it'd gotten more Brick-like from its start point, instead of way less Brick-like.

Morbs, the "moved" thing is interesting -- I actually can't tell if movies like this want to move you or not! Take old noir: there's a level of dramatic intensity, but it seems more aiming to thrill than to move; sometimes it's on the edge and I can't tell what it intends; and sometimes I suspect there are things that read as thriller tropes in present that may have had more dramatic poignancy back at the time (e.g., the ruined woman). I really can't tell in any direction.

max - there were dealers at my high school - they got busted and were constantly having run-ins with the school and local authorities. I got in fights a lot - I got sent to the VPs office and my parents definitely knew about it, almost every single time (adults notice when there's a crowd of kids yelling and screaming in a circle). I can't remember ever actually skipping class cuz there were like on-campus cops and hall monitors and shit who busted any kid that wasn't where they were supposed to be. And I went to a suburban high school in SoCal, not far from where this movie ostensibly "takes place" in fact.

watching City of Lost Children and being all "hey, where are Child Protective Services in this? and what kind of federal regulatory agency gave a zoning go-ahead for that evil laboratory?"

the difference is City of Lost Children makes ZERO gestures towards the action taking place in "the real world". With something like that, its clear from the get-go that you're operating in a mythical/fictional framework - which still has to have its own internal logic - but concerns about "realism" are reasonably set aside.

give it up, Shakey. Essentially this debate comes down to: great job of creating alternate high school universe vs shitty alternative universe

I WILL NOT POST PICTURES OF JGL FOR EVERY SILLY POST

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/focus_features/brick/_group_photos/joseph_gordon_levitt5.jpg