Lost Season 6 - RE: LA X

Hello sawyer already killed locke's dad on the island as already he was responsible for sawyer's parents dying

Ummm, not in the alternate timeline he hasn't.

i really want to see swayer's reaction to the black smoke at some point - hopefully just more blase nonchalance

Sawyer saw the black smoke take out a load of the Widmore commandos when he was in Otherville, surely? Also he must have been aware of it having spent three years as Dharma head of security.

So if Charlotte works with Mile's dad at the museum, (and if it's Pierre Chang) then surely he remembers Miles and Sawyer from Dharmaville. Wonder if he's said anything to his son.

Miles's dad knew about the time travel though, if it happened in that reality.

I get the feeling something's being set up for a scene in which Sawyer is crouching in despair over Miles's dead body.

Miles's dad knew about the time travel though

That's what I meant to say. Before now I assumed that all the people who might know what was going on (Eloise, Widmore, Jacob, Smokey) perished on the island in '77--but if Chang made it off safely then there are probably others roaming around the alt-timeline setting shit up.

it doesn't seem like they really have time to have everyone congregate in altworld now. are we meant to be seeing boone again?

love the idea of desmond being in the locker. seemed almost clunky for swayer to notice and ask what it was so has to be something "big".

hoping there's a proper widmore/ben scene where widmore explains how he found the island after it had been moved (would have to have involved some major sacrifice again, otherwise the whole 'move the island' plan is full of shit).

Yeah but it's the same thing in the alt, he's looking for dude who conned his parents. The same dude.

Sawyer tracking down Cooper would at least allow an opportunity for Sawyer, Miles, Locke and possibly Kate and Ben to all end up in the same place. Maybe others.

My new crazy theory is that smokey is Anubis, because he compared his mother to Claire, and Claire replaced Aaron with a jackal skull (Anubis having the head of a jackal.)

A friend of mine has made wild claims which he claimed were spoilers. WILD CLAIMS.

Kind of annoyed that Locke said, "Now Aaron has a crazy mother." Again implying that Aaron is important. Hopefully he was just trying to get Kate to kill Claire.

I think he was just lamenting that he'd made the same mistake his mother had by causing Claire's craziness. I quite like Crazy Claire!

didn't dogen say claire had the sickness? isn't that why she's crazay

yeah but i imagine Flocke feels responsible. the sickness is surely connected to him/his doing. obv he can work with it when recruiting.

Crazy Claire looks like she's a lot more in control of her actions then Crazy Sayid. I think she's just Rousseau-style mad as opposed to out-and-out possessed or whatever.

nah but Dogen said to Jack straight up "the same thing that happened to Sayid happened to your sister"

how long was Claire out in the jungle on her own with her silketun boybee? 2-3 years right? was "Christian" not with her for much of that time? the whole issue with where his body went is maddening.

they have come back to that one so many times (most recently Jack finding the empty coffin again a couple eps ago) that I think they HAVE to answer it for real

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGGzFKus8F0

starting to think alternate timeline isn't based on a nuke/incident split and instead on a lives-were-nevered-interfered-with-by-jacob split...AND that maybe the stuff we're seeing in the alternate timeline is the ultimate result of them leaving the island with flocke.

of all of the candidates whose flashsidewayses we've seen (jack, locke, hurley, sayid, sawyer), it seems like their lives would've been better without the influence of the island.

that would make flocke good though, and he is clearly evil.

starting to think alternate timeline isn't based on a nuke/incident split and instead on a lives-were-nevered-interfered-with-by-jacob split...AND that maybe the stuff we're seeing in the alternate timeline is the ultimate result of them leaving the island with flocke.

― did you mean: fart blasters? (nickalicious), Friday, March 19, 2010 2:43 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark

maybe if u kill jacob at any time he like disappears from the world throughout all time? infinity symbol

It's all about the good-evil balance in the characters, I think. They've hinted at that pretty heavily throughout this season. That balance is different in the alternate timeline for a lot of the characters, especially the more morally ambiguous ones - Sayid, Sawyer, Kate, Ben.

These are also the people who Smokey seems most concerned with. Jacob only appears to Hurley, who is the character least likely to have a sudden flash of mentalism and try and kill/manipulate/exploit someone. Ben coming down on the Jacob side rather than the Smokey side might be significant in all this, and I think they might explore it a lot more in the Jin and Sun episode.

I'm not sure where Jack and Locke fit into this theory, admittedly. Or Claire, but I suppose they can handwave that away by having her be crazy.

isn't it just a case of smokey manipulating people who he feels he can manipulate? eg pretty standard the people who are weakest or have suffered more?

and ben coming down on jacob side, doesn't that sort of say it is just about the characters and their choices ultimately? except perhaps for sayid and claire who have this sickness thing. still reckon claire died at some point in that otherton explosion and hence she's the same deal as sayid. if you watch back miles keeps staring at her weirdly for the rest of that ep....really markedly.

he still thought she was hot tho, even when "dead"

hope they actually increase the ambiguity re "good vs evil" (bleh). sympathy for Widmore would probably be going too far and there has to be a bad guy at the end i guess but we're supposed to sympathise with Flocke to some extent, in addition to Ben.

isn't it just a case of smokey manipulating people who he feels he can manipulate? eg pretty standard the people who are weakest or have suffered more?

Oh yeah totally but I don't think that conflicts with my theory really. Then again Sawyer isn't exactly weak or easily manipulated, but he's clearly going to end up dicking Smokey over anyway.

Widmore wanting the island to commercialise its magic properties or something would be enough for me. I like him as pantomime villain.

well sawyer has suffered a lot, i think he is sort of easy enough prey, he's v angry.

widmore wants to find the island so he can bring helen back to life.

Widmore with Vincent scene would be loliciously reminiscent of Jim Robinson & Bouncer

wait what is widmore's connection to helen? like locke's helen? I'm missing a step there.

widmore's mother-in-law

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c7/Helend1997.jpg/220px-Helend1997.jpg

Hm, I've never been too convinced about the 'good/evil' themes in Lost - apart from extremes such as Jacob v Flocke, and even then we're not sure how that will turn out. All the characters who had done 'bad' things in their backstory have been given sympathetic reasons e.g. Kate killing her stepdad for the good of her mother etc. I don't think there has been anyone or any past act that's been painted as entirely good/evil and it seems like this is something they've spent a long time pointing out.

If it's all so subjective it's kind of a weird thing to say "this changed X amount in the alt timeline".

I guess Nikki & Paulo had the most "evil" selfish backstory and look what happened to em...

Agree

I thought what happened to them was fan wrath (which is a kind of karmic retribution, but mostly extratextual one if that's the right word)

That was my understanding as well. I agree that there haven't been any really evil characters except for Whidmore (and they even began to dial that back in season 5), but I don't agree that you can't easily argue that these characters lives are better in the alt than they were in the original timeline. at least thus far.

The alt has spread over miniscule amount of time, it's all prob going to become horrible soon.

We may have gotten a little hint of that toward the end of the last one, yeah. I'm curious to see where it's going.

I don't think it's as simplistic as saying the characters are good/evil but a lot of them are pretty conflicted and some of them do really shitty things for no apparent reason - cf Jack trying to execute Locke. I sort of think bringing good and evil/light and dark into it like this is kind of lame but the writers seem to be going for it in a big way, from "we're the good guys" onward. Maybe even from Locke and Walt playing backgammon right at the start.

I think at this point I would stake everything I own on there being a scene with Hurley and Flocke where Hurley goes "dude, I know what happens when people go over to the Dark Side".

I think the writers are making it unclear (and have consistently made it unclear) who is good/evil, rather than marking out given people as good/evil. That's the exact nature of that "who are you"/"we're the good guys" exchange...to confuse you. And we still don't know who is actually "good" or "evil", obviously smokey/flocke seems to be pegged as bad but even at the end I'm sure you'll be able to say "well was jacob right to do x, y, z"

In backgammon there aren't actually good and bad sides.

maybe the horse was actually a zebra. stripes representing good and evil. and it is sawyer.

flocke painted over the white stripes, symbolising his victory. meanwhile jack probably listened to the white stripes off island.

In backgammon there aren't actually good and bad sides.

― abanana, Saturday, March 20, 2010 10:09 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

laughing out loud

So out of all the things to obsess about with the show I'm obsessing over this:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Little_Prince#2007_or_later

This is the bit during S5E4 when they show up at the beach on the main island, find two outriggers, one of which has an Ajira bottle - dating it post-2007. While taking the boat around the island to get to the Orchid and the wheel, they're fired on by people in the other boat, following them. Juliet returns fire, hits one, and then a flash takes them to 1988. At that point in the show it's the farthest future we've seen, since we haven't gotten to the Ajira landing yet. This scene may also be after everything we've seen in the show so far.

This is driving me nuts since we've never found out who brought those outriggers. They show up at the Ajira landing site, and the cast uses them at various points to pop back and forth between the main island and Hydra. At some point post-Ajira landing, a group decides they need to take out whoever just took their boat. I'm not sure if this is Ajira people, Ilana's group, Others, or Widmore's crew, or an entirely new group or combo pack of all of them. Since Locke is in the boat pre-MIB possession, it may be that someone's trying to stop him leaving the island, and therefore dying and coming back to the island as MIB.

I started thinking about this because of the mass death of the Ajira passengers - I was trying to figure out who was responsible, but then I remembered that in the S5 finale, MIB tells Richard that once he's seen Jacob they're going to 'have to deal' with the people who were on the Ajira flight. Richard asks him what he means, and MIB evades the question but implies they've all got to die. I'm not sure if that's because he's figuring that the flight was packed with Ilana's group/Jacob bodyguards/Widmore's people, or if they all have to go for some other reason. But either he killed them all himself, or he's accomplished that by proxy and was sending Sawyer to Hydra in part to confirm this.

In S6E5 Claire tells Jin she's had to stitch herself up after being shot, but I can't square that with her being a pal of MIB at that point and probably unwilling to fire on Locke. Also her being shot would have occurred pretty recently in the timeline.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Outrigger

I figure there is only one outrigger and it's been traveling through time and meeting itself.

I know, seriously, they're like a new compass.

There's three of em though. Beginning of 507 MIB and Ilana are standing by two, and the third was taken by Frank and Sun the night before.

I wasn't trying to get hung up on the boats per se (reminds me of a test question: 'You have three boats. If five people take four trips ...') but I was thinking that the boats, and the people in one in 504, signaled the arrival of yet another group which we haven't seen, maybe from the future, made up either of people we've already met (my guess) or yet to meet. I was wondering whether they were responsible for the Ajira massacre but I'd doubt it given that MIB wanted them gone.

I really don't think Jacob and Smokey represent good vs. evil. They are more like Randolph and Mortimer Duke: two powerful dudes with differing theories about humanity.