I HATE CLUBBING

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I've been guilty of wankerhood in the past, it seems silly now. I can't catch a disease off my own hand? It's expensive too!

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Snobbery is justified if the behaviour causing it is worthy of contempt.

Bollocks -- anyway, how do you make out that inner-city residents are better-behaved than the B&T lot? I don't see it.

My last post was a bit confused, but basically I was refuting the idea that by calling out the idea of the B&T as snobbish I was not being inversely-snobbish towards all you excitingly-coiffed Zone 1 and 2ers.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

it might be that some of the people who are anti-ponce, or have expressed antipathy, or non-interest at least, to fashion or style, or haircuts, have been strongly self-identified as working class, that i have made this connection, possibly in error?

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i think we definitely are confusing haircuts, class and suburbia here. They're all very different.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Enrique, you continue willfully disregarding what I am saying on the basis of terminology.

Is using the term "Tory" to describe Conservatives offensive to the Irish because it originated in Ireland?

"Bridge and Tunnel" was once an origin, it is now a behaviour.

(The funny thing is, in my experience, actual born and bred city dwellers do tend to be a lot more respectful of each other on a certain level because they understand that's what it's necessary to do to live packed in so closely. But this is my personal experience, not a generalisation.)

I understand what Gareth is trying to say, maybe because it's the same people always making the same arguments, and dragging class in during every single argument.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I like fashion and style etc G, just think some people go too far round the style/stupid circle Gareth. It's things like thais I call poncey. I fear you may be chowing on a red herring sammidge

― chris (chris), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

also, if you went into Luton town centre on a Saturday night sporting a big ironic mullet, ripped hipster flares, electroclash make up and a Ramones ringer tee you'd confuse the general populace so much the fucking Arndale centre would implode. That's why we hate you yuppy scumbags so much - you're destroying our livelihoods! I'm gonna have to get the bus up to crapping Bedford to buy my Kappa track bottoms now.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think class in that sense came into it at all. As a small-towner I felt that Kate was being a snob and I called her on it, but 'class' wasn't something I interoduced (ie snobbery agin subrubs, provinces etc isn't really class-snobbery).

2 xposts

Kate, I kinda see what you mean, but 'B&T' suggests disapproval of the object it relates to on snobbish grounds: like 'prole', in certain contexts I don't like it.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Gareth might be making a good point here, maybe not about attitudes on this thread but certainly on the board. (I think there was another thread where we discussed this but it was Momus arguing it so obviously it got shouted down).

I would like to see some more photoshoppery, though.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Gregory otm.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Dear Jim'll

Can you fix it for me to be photoshopped into a picture waving my thumbs at Gareth and Kate for blowing up the Luton Arndale centre?

Chzthxbye!

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

The exact post where "classism" was introduced:

I mean, goddamit. Is the sensation of snobbery really so irresistible to you? Are you not aware that your tedious posts on classism, etc, read like someone vomiting after having a copy of the Daily Mail shoved down their throats? Are you really so addicted to empty, blustering rhetoric??
-- stevie (looselippedstevi...), June 11th, 2004. (stevie) (later)

Hunt him down and tar him and feather him like the scurvy peasant he is, I'll have his head hanging on a pole above my moat as a lesson to the rest of ye!

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's a very good point that anti-hipster snobbery is the snobbery it's OK to like around here, but I fear that trying to map it on to any perceived ILX class divisions is very tricky. You'd need a venn diagram at least. Maybe a seven dimentional venn diagram from space.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

It's interesting, this thread. I can see where Gareth is coming from: there is a definite, erm, anti-ponce attitude to the board at times. I don't think it was necessarily a good idea to bring it up on this thread though, given the confusion of terms already present.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

shut up you tw@tting hipster Hopkins

― chris (chris), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

dog latin is my hero.

― g-kit (g-kit), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

the person with the ironic haircut is just a stereotype image for the kind of person who spends much of their time wallowing in other irony - championing the mediocre etc. (altho Chris Moyles did that with Peter Andre and he fancies himself as a working class hero doesn't he?). it doesn't seem like a good thing, but stereotypes aren't either.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Aye, trianglulating class is problematic enough without trying to map it onto hipster/anti-hipsterism.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I am listening to Giorgio Moroder and scratching under my arms.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve you shouldn't generalise about stereotypes.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Ronan, well I am listening to DMX and about to fart.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

later I will put on Vitalic, and eat a banana, aggressively.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

OOhh! May I commission an enneagram-style "which ilxor are you" style test, with questions such as:

Trucker Hats C/D?

How ironic is your hair? Very/Kinda/Not at all

What is the most unacceptable thing to come out of your anus? Horrible poo/Pins/28ft Yacht

The enneagram can then slot people into different Ilxor categories including Arndale Arsonist, Bridge & Tunneler, Asshat etc.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I wish every thread was like this. I'd read ILX all night long, drink huge amounts of coffee and never go clubbing. Even when it's Saturday and I just have to get drunk.

Ironic haircuts deserve a "search and destroy" thread. It's no fun just mentioning them like this, they need to be attacked with extreme prejudice.

― Pingu, Friday, 11 June 2004 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

B&T morphed into PMS. Pickering, Scarborough and you can argue all day about the M being Markham or Mississauga.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean I understand people's derision of 'hipsters' based on things like the nostalgia over-indulgence (tho i'm totally guilty of this too i concede...everyone likes to talk about what they watched on TV or played with when they were kids - maybe even displaying it as a badge...it often seems just daft, and cheapened when you see it everywhere, as we do now), the championing of 'edgy' areas with 'faux-charm' (as it seems, but that's just because some people can see charm in a derelict warehouse while others can't - not to the detriment of either party really), tacky 80s clothes (i really don't like pointy shoes and massive earrings but i'm not gonna actually HATE someone for wearing them, as they'd probably find my dress-sense totally pedestrian and boring in return)...

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Aye, trianglulating class is problematic enough without trying to map it onto hipster/anti-hipsterism.
-- Ricardo (boyofbadger...), June 11th, 2004.

OTM -- I usually end up seeming anti-hipsterish and midtown, but not because of any active hatred but because teh hipsterz quite often bring out their own anti-B&T material first -- and I react against that. You can't map class on to *this* discussion since the B&T are just as middle-class as the ironic-haircuts brigade. Shit, they may even *have* ironic hair. Both breeds are slightly chimerical, as I think we all realize.

― Henry K M (Enrique), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Threads like this make me want to lock myself in a barn in the middle of nowhere and shoot anyone who comes within 50 yards of my house more than clubbers, tedious working class shoulder-chips, and ironic Hoxton haircuts all put together.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

M is Malton, surely?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Maaaaatllooooooooock

― chris (chris), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course, suburbanites also love to dwell in irony. Going back to the clubbing thing (remember that?), the most popular student townie nights are cheesy disco things - in fact there's very little non-ironic music being played in small town clubs.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

(Sorry, I am almost the only person on the thread who would find that even remotely amusing)

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Hi! What did I miss?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

You missed a really good bag of chips, Matt.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:48 (twenty-two years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1825000/images/_1826702_chips150.jpg

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Incidentally - can I just point out that I am the KING when it comes to provincial clubbing. Every stupid Brent-and-Gareth-go-dancing cliche, I've done it. Fight with person big enough to break me in two? Check. Alcopop-clutching beltalong to awful mid-90s chart pop? Check. Terrifying liason with predatory older women? Check. Botulism-inducing food on the way home - definitely.

Any bloke who hasn't done this and enjoyed it at least once is either lying, or a goth.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I think we can all agree that city/suburban attitudes are so different, we may as well be shouting alien languages at each other. I'm looking out of my office window right now and I can see sheep. SHEEP!

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Loose Lips Eat Chips.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I'm a goth then, Matt. But then, you all already knew that, yes?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

OTFM!!!! Very much so. I tried to get 'edgy' dance website burnitblue to let me write about this when I reviewed for em back in the day, but no dice. Now they've gone right down the shitter. QED.

MattDC -- I've only gone proper clubbing about three times. All the rest played 'Come On Eileen' -- and I've never met Tom Ewing.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

no dl and i was amazed at your mention of London people who didn't know wher North herts. was? are you KIDDING? sorry but i just find this absurd and i know some v geographically ignorant people myself.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, Londoners came from somewhere, right?

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, Matt DC = OTM, despite my earlier rage. Sometimes a Bodrum's "meat" kebab can taste fantastic if you want it to, and the same goes for clubbing.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

This did happen. Except they asked me if it was "up North". I'm serious. This was in Highgate.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i was amazed at your mention of London people who didn't know wher North herts. was?

I had no idea! I mean, I figured it was a home county but I think it overlapped in my brain with hereford somehow, I wasn't really sure.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

uh, Hoxditch is aglow with kebab joints - that's hardly a suburbanite exclusive, nor are any of the other things described. I have been to Equinox in Leicester Square...(pretty much full of suburbanites granted)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I have known otherwise intelligent and knowledgeable native born Londoners think that Bristol wasn't west of London. Not knowing where North Herts is nothing compared to that, surely?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(Also, I only found out that Hackney was North of the river like last year, when I'd been dating someone who lived there for like four months, possibly this excludes me from being representative).

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

but there's an obvious difference re West End clubbing and trendy urban clubbing of course - suburbanites are less common in the latter.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread has just made me google the official website of the New Cross Venue, officially the ultimate archetype of the horrible provincial club, only with four floors of the stuff. And an indie disco on top to make it even worse. And tribute bands called things like Wonderwall, and Even Better Than The Real Thing.

The photo gallery in particular is being fearsome.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

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