the silent film thread

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for fuck's sake, you're arguing more than me! you're posting three times for every one of mine on the subject. Let it lie, man. Everyone can't like all films.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:09 (twenty years ago) link

i was responding as much to enrique and to his and others' consistent harping on "overrated" films and "underrated" films, all of which are extremely famous and well-cited.

also you are being disingenuous. i of course dont expect everyone to like or love sunrise, nor do i care if you like it (as i said above, i prefer nosferatu, and there are many films i prefer to both) but you made some hypotheses about why sunrise has a supposed greater critical reputation than nosferatu, and speculated that it might be "overrated" for sundry reasons, and i was contesting those reasons.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:13 (twenty years ago) link

also is it possible to have an argument here without someone resorting to a rhetorical fallacy?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:14 (twenty years ago) link

that's what the Nazis said.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:16 (twenty years ago) link

aside to enrique: im not claiming nor is ozu claiming that he broke free from all filmic conventions. but if you can find one director of narrative films who went farther in the direction of developing his own stylistically exhaustive conventions, of avoiding the cliches of contemporary plot structure, please let me know. (the only possible candidate i know is robert bresson and he's a long way off.)

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:17 (twenty years ago) link

could this thread turn into a Lumiere Brothers films Search/Destroy? My favourite is the one where the guy is watering the lawn and then some naughty child stands on the hose so water stops coming out, and the guy looks into the hose AND THEN the boy steps off the hose so water squirts out into the guy's face! This is the funniest film ever made.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:24 (twenty years ago) link

no idea. i can't quite map plot on to form here. there are plenty less conventional directors -- resnais, for one. i can't compute the question, soz.

― enrique (Enrique), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:25 (twenty years ago) link

DV that's L'Arroseur arrosé (the waterer watered) and is one of the first staged films, i.e. not an "actuality"

i'm not really a lumieriste though

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:28 (twenty years ago) link

the best part of that movie though is when the gardener runs to chase after the naughty boy and they go off camera and the camera doesnt move at all, it just waits until they go back into frame a few seconds later.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:33 (twenty years ago) link

my favorite lumiere is a shot of a bunch of boys floating toy boats in a fountain in paris. one little boy steps right in front of the camera and you see this cane reach around from the side of the frame (presumably it belongs to the cameraman), rap the little boy on the shoulder whereupon he runs off to the side.

also the one of the baby walking is pretty great.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:35 (twenty years ago) link

Obv then a film of a brick wall being knocked down is the most exciting ever made, seeing as it causes ladies in the audience to faint & have the vapours.

I'm going to ge silent movies on DVD to play in my new computer. 1st chouce = steamboat bill jr, 2nd = Pandora's Box. Can "The Perils of Pauline" be obtained on DVD I wonder.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:44 (twenty years ago) link

i dont think so. the whole thing is like 6 hours i think.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 13:52 (twenty years ago) link

I remember seeing this clip from it when I was a kid - pearl white is on one of those railway trolleycarts, IIRC, a pedal one as opposed to a hand-cranked one, and she's trolleying on down this single track railway line which is supended precariously on the side of a cliff. She rounds a bend, and HORROR!! There's this enormous steam locomotive coming towards her. To this day, I've never found out how she got out of that one.

Also, I'd really like to get like dvds of "fantomas", if they were available.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 8 December 2003 14:17 (twenty years ago) link

the entire 1913-14 fantomas serial is on a dvd set from gaumont in france. it only has french intertitles but you can get by with a good dictionary i'd imagine, if you don't read french.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 14:26 (twenty years ago) link

thx!! I thought you'd know abt this.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 8 December 2003 14:29 (twenty years ago) link

amateurist you are a national treasure!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 8 December 2003 16:37 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...

Does anyone have the UK "Sunrise" special edition DVD yet? If so, are there any opinions on the audio/visual quality, and the special features?

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 1 February 2004 21:31 (twenty years ago) link

if anyone is in paris this february email me i have a special event to tell you about

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 1 February 2004 21:31 (twenty years ago) link

I watched that Britney Spears movie with the TV on mute. Does that count?

― El Spinktor (El Spinktor), Sunday, 1 February 2004 21:44 (twenty years ago) link

I feel that Murnau's "Nosferatu" is one of the ten greatest films ever made, and suspect that the only reason people go on about "Sunrise" is that critical opinion does not like to accord just levels of acclaim to a film about a bloodsucking vampire

it probably has more to do with the fact that Sunrise is still a moving film, but Nosferatu (great tho it is) really isn't scary anymore. horror doesn't age well, sadly.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 2 February 2004 00:14 (twenty years ago) link

Tom, I think the DVD may not be out yet, since the BFI is set to release a new print in Soho in the next few days. I'd guess it would be make more sense to release the DVD shortly after the theatrical run? Dunno.

Just saw my first silent film screening with live accompaniment (Red Heroine), and I must say that it is somehow more satisfying knowing that there is a guy sitting there watching the film and weaving together different themes in a coherent whole, non-stop, without any sheet music. Whether or not he memorized the piece or improvised it, very impressive. It doesn't exactly feel totally different than watching a silent film with an added score, but it feels just slightly subliminally fuller.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Monday, 2 February 2004 01:52 (twenty years ago) link

nosferatu is totally scary wtf

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 2 February 2004 09:17 (twenty years ago) link

I just saw a British 1926 adaptation of 'A Tale of Two Cities' (called 'The Only Way,' which was apparently an extremely successful stage play -- which the film more or less recreates). Because it's not particularly well-remembered or leved, I ended up enjoying this far more than other sitlents, and has given me the itch to see a whole load more. With so many silents I feel oppressed by the idea that the film is a major leap forward in film language -- I can't just watch the thing, i have to recognize how significant that cut or this track is. This film broke that spell. So I'm gonna see 'Sunrise' (for the third time) when it's out.

Also: Tom -- Murnau's 'The Last Laugh' is out soon on DVD -- for a long time this was even more highly regarded than 'Sunrise'.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 2 February 2004 09:54 (twenty years ago) link

how long of a time? the two years between their release dates?

i havent seen a murnau film i haven't adored--right now i'm big on his faust

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 2 February 2004 13:36 (twenty years ago) link

'The Last Laugh' got mo' love from the 'socially concerned' critix cos of the whole neue sacherlicht (sp!) thang. I think.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 2 February 2004 13:39 (twenty years ago) link

"The Last Laugh": great news... I've heard a fair bit about that. Not perhaps as praised as "Sunrise" but not too far off (and how is that a problem when "Sunrise" is one of my few favourite films?).
May well pick up "Faust" today for £7 in Fopp...

Girolamo: No, it is actually out, on Eureka, and I know this because I now possess it! :) I just ask because I won't be able to watch it until March; i.e. my DVD player is at home while I'm at University.

― Tom May (Tom May), Monday, 2 February 2004 15:46 (twenty years ago) link

ARGH don't remind me of Cambridge Fopp

a) that's where my december paycheck went
b) oxford doesn't have a fopp grrr

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 2 February 2004 15:48 (twenty years ago) link

;-) Only "Faust" and the (mentioned on ILM; loads of classic late 70s/80s disco-r'n'b) "Pure Groove" compilation this time, I think. Though I got the Upsetters' "Super Ape" for a fiver a few days ago, too.

They've also had in stock (or did, anyway) "...Caligari", "The Blue Angel" and a special edition "Nosferatu". Is the "Nosferatu" package recommended?

― Tom May (Tom May), Monday, 2 February 2004 15:56 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...

recommended, highly: the king vidor version of 'la boheme' with lillian gish

― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 20 March 2004 23:10 (twenty years ago) link

KING VIDOR I LOVE YOU CAN I BE IN ONE OF YOUR MOVIES PLEAS!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 21 March 2004 00:03 (twenty years ago) link

I AM DEAD SORRY

--KING VIDOR

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 21 March 2004 12:14 (twenty years ago) link

THX SORRY

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 21 March 2004 17:29 (twenty years ago) link

eleven months pass...

I just found Sjoman's The Phantom Chariot. I'm going to probably watch it on Monday.

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 6 March 2005 04:01 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd really like to see 1923's Trilby, i'm not even sure if there are any prints of it left but I've been fascinated since I bought a production still of ebay of it.

http://photos3.flickr.com/5930783_db2693c8c6.jpg

It starred Audree LaFayette and Philo McCoullough

― kate/baby loves headrub (papa november), Sunday, 6 March 2005 04:34 (nineteen years ago) link

sjostrom--i hope you like it! i hope you found a good copy. a good-looking print of the film will be positively gorgeous. it's a very moody and subtle film (though not as subtle as some of his other films).

i can check to see if that one exists. somehow i think it does, but i may be wrong.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 6 March 2005 08:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Silent drama can be avery dangerous thing. If it's not made by a great visual stylist (Murnau, Lang, Vidor etc), the going can be tough.

I was gifted with the Keaton box last Christmas. Still, his films are best seen first on the big screen, cuz it's vital to see his face.

Orson Welles said, purely on aesthetics, silents should have continued alongside talkies as a distinctly different art form.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 7 March 2005 14:44 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...

Edison box set! Anders als die Andern FINALLY available on home video!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 29 May 2005 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link

And then there's this enticing forthcoming little number.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 29 May 2005 16:01 (nineteen years ago) link

wow! that looks amazing.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 29 May 2005 16:22 (nineteen years ago) link

By the way, my favorite Edison (based on the dozen or so I've seen) is this:

http://www.railwaybridge.co.uk/images/topsyelectrornd.jpg

Seemingly establishing the format as being capable of great cruelty, et al.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 29 May 2005 16:24 (nineteen years ago) link

The only Keaton I've been underwhelmed with so far is The Navigator. But the scene where Keaton and his love interest chase each other around the ship's deck, trying to catch up with each other's phantom presence for what seems like five minutes is teh roffle.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 29 May 2005 16:28 (nineteen years ago) link

The somewhat grim stories of ">Edison, Tesla, Westinghouse and Topsy the Elephant.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 29 May 2005 16:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Which is to say Electrocuting an Elephant also helps establish the format as excellent for Toxic Sludge is Good for You-style manipulation.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 29 May 2005 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Topsy the Elephant had killed three people, and even if one of them had fed her a lit cigarette...

Also establishing the notion that most inmates executed under death penalties are either innocent or committed justifiable crimes.

Electrocuting an Elephant is the birth of the 20th century in nearly every conceivable way.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 29 May 2005 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Annabelle Serpentine Dance: BIG DANCING VAGINA.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 29 May 2005 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link

that edison boxset is insane!

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 29 May 2005 17:10 (nineteen years ago) link

It's really good, Cozen! I bought it a while back, and I still get a kick out of showing some of the stuff to friends.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Sunday, 29 May 2005 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link

i think my entire april paycheck went to box sets of silent films

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 29 May 2005 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link

you should list what was on the receipt.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 29 May 2005 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...

http://www.cadrage.net/dossier/aelita.gif

Oh, now I remember where I saw this. On Chris Marker's Immemory. (It's on Netflix!)

― Eric H: not a troll, with one exception (Eric H.), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 16:08 (eighteen years ago) link

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