Doctor Who 2008: Sontarans cometh, RTD Ood 'ave 'im etc.

No, that was Neil Morrissey

The noise when the Shadow Proc lass talked to Donna was the heartbeat noise, wasn't it?

And given the Daleks can time travel, and have no fears about changing the course of history, the 'Dalek' thing bugs me not. I mean, they changed the Time War, which is presumably a bigger deal than changing events taking place in an isolated spot under Salt Lake City.

Here's hoping that moffat can do a cliffhanger without doing a reset afterwards. Although SITL and FOTD don't give me much home.

Whilst I like the idea of Mickey in Torchwood I hope that Martha swiftly gets eaten by some unspeakable horror from the rift.

What I liked is that there wasn't a reset at the end of this one: the thing with Donna was genuinely moving, and the fact that RTD managed to restrain from her giving the Doc a lingering look as he left, despite everything, impressed me.

Donna and Wilf were absolutely brilliant, and am so sad they are consigned to history whilst EmoRose and DoctorTwo get to live on.

Could they not get the rest of Martha's family back? Am saddened that they didn't get Pete back, and why has Gay Todd From Corrie with that information thingie in his head never ever been re-referenced?

did davros have two ultimate triumphs? destroying everything, and being nasty to the doxor

"Bad Wolf Bay"

Yeah this felt like a succession of RTD pulling rabbits out of hats, I got very annoyed indeed at the opening but once I noticed the hand continuing to glow in the corner of the screen for a while I knew we weren't done with it. The rest of it = marvellous, needed more of everyone being nasty to Mickey though.

This episode really tied in with what I've been saying about letting the air out of the Messianic Doctor balloon - this wasn't an OMG THE DOCTOR SAVES EVERYTHING episode at all, real ensemble cast feel to this one, everyone had a part to play. Well, except Jackie really, that was pointless. Total star turn from Donna as well. Also K-9 was a total icing on cake moment.

I get the feeling the two Tennants thing was structural rather than anything else, it allowed RTD to concentrate on Doctor-Donna and Doctor-Rose separately without having everyone tripping over one another.

Tennant I calling out Tennant II was almost as good as Davros calling out the Doctor. I liked how unbelievably unsatisfied Rose seemed by ending up with Tennant II. Almost as much as the look Tennant II gave when Donna said "I've got the best bit of the Doctor".

But really, the best bit was the Daleks speaking German.

However Davros and the Daleks REALLY should have cottoned on to Dalek Caan going "and one of them will die!" every five minutes. I kept expecting Davros to turn round and go "hang on, we're going to kill everyone in the universe, I thought that was the point?"

I didn't understand what Dalek Caan was up to - why did he bring Davros back to build a dalek empire in order to destroy it? Purely because he was crazed?

Lolled at Freema on Confidential afterwards moaning that the rest of them got to all hang around and do fun things and she had to go running round a forest in the dark.

German Daleks were the best thing by a very long way. Rest of it was just Rusty patting himself on the back for being very very clever "hello Gwen, we met your great-great-great-great-granny Gwyneth once" etc OH FUCK OFF.

Love Jackie so much "no you plum, he's called Tony" and would love to go to Torchwood with Mickey.

My theory was that Rose was disappointed with DoctorTwo because he will get old and grey and die and is therefore not going to look like Tennant forever and she is shallow. Would have been way better if DoctorTwo had actually been Ecclescake or McCoy or something though, see how all his memories and thoughts etc all stack up for her when not wrapped up in Tennant's body.

Would love *Jackie* to go to Torchwood obviously, though I would love to go too.

German Daleks are more efficient than their Anglophile counterparts but are somewhat flawed in that they feel the need to apologise for 50 years after the extermination.

What did the German lady call the Daleks?

Why did Rose have to go back to her other timeline but Mickey was allowed to stay in this one?

Did she have to? I thought she wanted to be with her parents.

Wasn't she taken back to Bad Wolf Bay by The Doctor and Donna because the rift was closing again, and she didn't particularly want to go because she wanted to stay with the Doctor (as opposed to DoctorTwo who she got given as a present)

I may have missed some of the finer points through general hilarity and OH FUCK OFF-ness amongst my viewing companions.

Can someone remind me why a Norwegian beach is the gateway between universes?

It looks pretty in a desolate and lonely way.

It's where melody is the be all and end all.

It looks pretty in a desolate and lonely way.

-- Matt DC, Sunday, 6 July 2008 17:52 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

And conveniently enough like south Wales to make the filming cheap.

and is called Bad Wolf Bay. Real spoddy Who answer = it is the site of one of those rift thingies.

animated gifs are fun!

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5141/dalekpushpo8.gif

Also, turns out that Wilf's red cap wasn't SAS, but parachute regiment, and more than likely Cribbins' own.

His own!

aww.

I still don't know why people don't like the idea of Tennant and Piper pairing off. I think it's pretty OK.

Why were there German daleks anyway?

I would have imagined that you people who actually watch the programme would have understood that, unlike the likes of me.

ie. that you might have seen them before or something.

I think they were German because they were in Germany, pinefox.

I quite enjoyed it, but it was an ultimate cheese-fest. Didn't see the penultimate one so had no real sense of cliffhanger spoiled (and also as a non-regular Who watcher I don't really have anything invested in such things). Hated the Billie payoff, liked Davros and K9 and the Deutsche Daleks. I too wished he'd taken Cribbins (wasn't there a similar thing with another series/episode? An old guy wanting to be companion who he shuns?).

Mr copper in the Xmas special?

The German dalek thing seemed pretty tasteless to me. Where there skinhead redneck daleks in Kentucky?

Ed, I think you are correct.

forksclovetofu, why tasteless? They are in Germany, they need to have their cries of 'exterminate! Die, puny humans!' etc understood, so therefore they speak German. It just makes sense, especially as they had a human German character who did not default to speaking straight English.

Could they not get the rest of Martha's family back?

I cannot stand Martha's family. Just having to see her mother for a few minutes was too much.

digital subtitles (thanks red bee) had german lady say "Albtraum" for daleks

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albtraum

also: MAXIMUM POWER

and no pay off for the line in ep 12 "someone moved the earth before, but... no"

something for coming series? (esp when they discover all the timelords hiding 'saved' inside the matrix)

I thought that line was referring to an old Who story with the Daleks moving the Earth, wasn't it? I hear there was an old Time Lords story with the same gimmick, but I guess that wasn't the intention to allude to them, despite the hints that the Time Lords might come back (all the regeneration stuff, Doctor's Daughter, etc).

Or maybe it was an intentional swerve, since they did infact bring the Daleks out of the Time War, but they might be giving Davies and Co. too much credit. It doesn't sound like they really meant to make it THAT epic (no new Doctor), despite it being the end of his run. This episode did reflect Bad Wolf/S1's ending in a few ways, though.

"Tasteless" because it took place at Nuremberg to evoke the Nazi atrocities and nodding to the Holocaust to punch home the SERIOUS BIDNESS of a pepperpot invasion seems drastically inappropriate given the batty-nonsensical tact of this episode; I don't require every reference to the Nazis to come cloaked in solemnity, but this was some sub-"Life Is Beautiful" shit.

Further thoughts from this guy: http://lascribe.net/2008/07/06/61/

- “Exterminieren” as the German translation of “exterminate” — well. It’s a bit dodgy, but the word (like German equivalents of just about anything that’s a Latinate word in English or French) is in German dictionaries. Canonically you’d say “ausrotten“, but hell, “exterminate” would be unidiomatical English, too, for shooting a person (except if you’re a Dalek).

- It made sense that the Daleks would speak German in Germany. Contrary to what I’ve read online, their German isn’t grammatically incorrect (though it has an English accent). What they’re saying is “Exterminieren, exterminieren! Halt, sonst werden wir sie exterminieren. Sie sind jetzt ein Gefangener der Daleks.” (”Exterminate, exterminate! Stop, otherwise we will exterminate you. You’re now a prisoner of the Daleks.”) They use the formal “sie” as an address, which is weird, and isn’t as snappy as I’d expect Gestapo-Daleks to be, but it’s a fair stab at German. As for Martha’s German, it was fine and believable for an army-trained special-op.

- It did NOT make sense to label a place as “60 miles outside Nuremberg”. Dear Doctor Who team, go and look up the population density of Germany (almost identical to that of the UK on the average). A draw a sixty-mile circle around Nuremberg gets you half-way to Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Praha, Erfurt or Munich. The cities or major towns of Würzburg, Inglostadt and Regensburg lie right on the edge of the circle. Also, if you want to resurrect the Nuremberg-Nazi reference, “5 miles outside of Nuremberg” is far enough to find picturesque mansions inside spooky forests.

The Daleks were always meant to be a Nazi allegory, so I don't see a problem with it.

Also, that point about Nuremberg is otm. 60 miles would make sense in the Australian outback, maybe.

I couldn't stand Martha's family either but since they'd gone to the trouble of getting her mother back you'd think they could have got the rest of them back as well, or at least explained where they were. More hurt about lack of reference to Adam and shite explanation for no Pete, tbh.

Who gives a shit about any of those characters? Jesus.

No more Martha, please. I don't think I could stand any more of her non-acting.

Sorry that looks snappier than it's meant to be. But it's a bit like watching Lost for half a season and going "but where are Rose and Bernard eh?"

Pete would have been a better character to bring back than Jackie but both are kind of redundant from a plot point of view. Although I thought it was weakly implied that Mickey had been going to Jackie for, erm, what he couldn't get from Rose. There was something weird going on there anyway.

Rusty does! Explaining every little thing is his thing! also, doesn't everyone like Pete Tyler?

xpost obviously

Pete would have been less redundant than Jackie since parallel Pete was some kind of secret agent spy thing with connections to Torchwood, wasn't he?

Maybe, they've conveniently forgotten the whole 'evil Torchwood' thing though haven't they?

I only realised the problem with Freema today, she has very big eyes and doesn't have a clue what to do with them while acting. So when Martha is meant to be totally badass and in control she has this look of blind panic in her eyes, like she's been called to the front of the class and asked to explain a really hard sum.

True, I can't even imagine her being able to pull off badarse. Shame, really.

Well that was quite something - littered with deus ex machina and appallingly contrived narrative shortcuts (they blew up the Daleks by pressing some buttons!), it nonetheless crossed the finishing line a success, propelled by enthusiasm and sheer unhinged wackiness. Davros was magnificent, and Donna's fate was sadder than if she had died. Rose and Doctor II can stay the fuck out of my dimension, though. That's gonna turn into one screwed-up relationship.