Lost Season 6 - RE: LA X

btw the loophole is just getting ben to do it right? nothing to do with being Locke (except that being Locke is what convinced ben)

That's the 'long con' argument where to get in a position to get close to Jacob, MIB had to be the leader of the Others, with an accomplice that could actually do the deed. Locke's position as leader of the Others was engineered by MIB during S5, even though we saw the results of it (the Others acting as if Locke had been 'chosen') in S3 and 4. Ben was the perfect aggrieved party after MIB had usurped his authority and turned Ben's resentment of that towards Jacob. The loophole turned out to be MIB killing Jacob by proxy, which I would imagine Jacob had figured out well ahead of time. Even if he couldn't prevent his own death he could create plans that would outlive him.

riiiight. that seems right. tho presably Jacob is responsible for having brought 815 in the first place?

Hence the 'they're coming' - Ilana & The Touchees

Might have mentioned this before but I was pleased when the time travel stuff began because it provided a context for the "island wants this to happen" in that THAT could have meant that "the laws of time travel dictate that this must happen" (like Michael not being able to kill himself - I guess that happened because it would have caused a paradox - he was physically needed to blow up the freighter).

This was my rationale for MIB not being able to kill Jacob, or Ben not being able to kill Widmore - 'if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen'. Not sure that's the case with MIB and Jacob any more though.

And by 'touchees' I mean the 815ers, yeah, werewolf

Watching these episodes, it seems pretty clear that Christian and Locke are both the same person to me. They're working to achieve the same goals. But it's interesting how much Smokey embodies Christian, Alex, Locke, etc. when he takes their form. When Christian asks Locke to say hello to his son, he really seems like he means it.

I think he acts like them because he is them - he has all of their memories and experience. This leads to compassion on his part towards Locke, for instance. When he says, as Christian, 'say hello to my son' he's keeping up the pretense (MIB wants to be seen as the person he's imitating so he can manipulate, that cover's blown now w/r/t Locke) but he's also genuine.

Stepfield Christian seemed more threatening than concerned for Jack.

tho presably Jacob is responsible for having brought 815 in the first place?

He didn't "touch" Sayid or Hurley prior to them coming on the Oceanic flight, or at least we haven't seen him do so. Both of them were "touched" between the two flights.

they'd be missing a trick not having Lapidus flying the plane we're seeing in these flashalongs

still love when Locke said "your Dad says hello" and Jack's "omg you motherfucker" face

Even if he couldn't prevent his own death...

He didn't even try. He pretty much was all like "o hai ben let me help u with that"

just realized that I know a local spine surgeon who is eerily similar to Christian in appearance, demeanor, and general....Christian-ness.

the term is "Christianity"

if that local surgeon was to have a son, would you say NO MATTER WHAT HE DID it was just NEVER ENOUGH for his Dad. Was it? WAS IT?

I forgot about the scene where Christian appears to Michael just before he dies. If that was MIB, what was his motive there?

didn't michael have a bunch of other christianesque incidents? i can barely remember that ep

He didn't "touch" Sayid or Hurley prior to them coming on the Oceanic flight, or at least we haven't seen him do so. Both of them were "touched" between the two flights.

Whoops, yeah, I was thinking of bringing the 815ers back on Ajira, not the initial crash. Though Jacob seems to have selected them all over the place in the timeline so I don't think direct cause-and-effect really holds.

I forgot about the scene where Christian appears to Michael just before he dies. If that was MIB, what was his motive there?

I had completely forgotten that, I'll have to rewatch it. I can see how Christian would function as a useful mouthpiece for MIB, and Alex is pretty obvious, but I have no idea what using Yemi got MIB other than just playing at being some Old Testament figure of judgement. It may be that MIB was scouting Eko as a leader-of-the-Others precursor before Locke was finally decided on. D&C did say pretty early on (season 2 I think) that we had seen the smoke monster in other forms and just didn't recognize it, so the rationale of the dead walking on the island as MIB possessions was in place. I'd love to figure out how being under Jacob's thumb limited MIB's ambition. I thought the ash was keeping him in Jacob's cabin, but that didn't prevent him from roaming around the island as smokey.

seems like the 815ers coming back on ajira is the way they are going to reconcile the timelines

faraday will show up and convince them somehow...to go the island...again...for the third time

then the 2007 stuff will somehow lead them back to the explosion, with kate in the tree, etc

then they will save jacob?

I don't think Jacob's agenda for the Ajira folk is to save himself, but permanently contain MIB - in the alt the island's underwater, remember. I think the alt is the natural resolution of the narrative rather than something that has to be combined with the main reality.

You'd think that a reality could be picked to move to in which the island never existed and MIB never posed a threat (the island might be like Borges' aleph - a point from which all other times and places can be seen). But that assumes that the alt is 'alternate' - and in a show in which 'whatever happens happens' the alt could be a successfully rewritten timeline.

My initial reaction to you bringing Faraday back is 'no way are they bringing Faraday back' - I have nothing to base it on other than the feeling like Faraday's story's done. I think there are so many plates spinning now ... but it does make me think of something.

Faraday dies in 1977; MIB had access to his memories (reminds me of Miles accessing the memories of the dead) for all that time, I wonder if that could have affected his attempting a 'loophole'. It's a long shot but a fun idea.

Roll on tomorrow's ep because for pedantic bastards like me there was precious little to chew on with this last one.

The idea of containment got me thinking - probably not a coincidence that the death of Jacob happens at the same time the Swan Station and hatch is wiped out from the timeline. Probably just a thematic tie-in, but the whole Hatch creation to prevent the destructive force of the underground energy well from destroying the island (which it does in the revised '77, thanks to Jack and co.) parallels the imprisonment and release of Jacob's enemy. I doubt they were really considering it in early season 3, but it does fit nicely with the Hatch energy being released in the S2 finale as well.

seems like the 815ers coming back on ajira is the way they are going to reconcile the timelines

faraday will show up and convince them somehow...to go the island...again...for the third time

then the 2007 stuff will somehow lead them back to the explosion, with kate in the tree, etc

then they will save jacob?

― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, February 15, 2010 9:04 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wait

what

if i'm reading that right it's just wrong on so many levels

Yeah that doesn't ring true for me.

They aren't going to reconcile the timelines, that would be ridiculous even by Lost standards. Think what they might end up doing is giving everyone a really shit ending in the alternate timeline (like, everyone dies or gets banged up or something) to show that the crash was the best thing to have happened to them. They've already hinted at this by having Man In Black say that Locke was the only one who realised how worthless his home life was.

Whether there's an alternate timeline Faraday depends on whether Ellie got off the island after the bomb blast (my guess = no) so the only way we'd see him would be in flashbacks or in some kind of Desmond constant timeflash way. I hope he turns up in some capacity just because I like him.

im MUCH preferring the los angeles timeline

WE SHALL SEE

please, everyone here is speculating there asses off

i think reconciliation of the timelines is the only way

They aren't going to reconcile the timelines, that would be ridiculous even by Lost standards. Think what they might end up doing is giving everyone a really shit ending in the alternate timeline (like, everyone dies or gets banged up or something) to show that the crash was the best thing to have happened to them. They've already hinted at this by having Man In Black say that Locke was the only one who realised how worthless his home life was.

― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:52 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

how is this less ridiculous than reconciliation? everyone has a shitty life in the alternate timeline, and... thats all folks?

yeah that's like ending the show with a resounding sigh

or a fart from dead locke's corpse

..emitting a tiny cloud of black ectoplasm

ya that would be... not only a bummer, but kinda amazingly smug on the writers' part too

some kind of timeline reconciliation involving desmond and daniel could be great. doing just this alt-timeline without some kind of convergence with 2007 just doesn't seem quite right. major credibility gamble (idk if that really matters anymore tho) either way really.

it would be a major narrative sin to introduce it and then not connect it to the rest of the series

i think it would be pretty terrible, especially after there was a whole season about how their post-island lives sucked and they shoulda gone back to the island. not exactly the same thing but it would feel tired.

this dude's take on possibly converging timelines is the most convincing prediction I've encountered thusfar.

Well the alternative timeline can't actually hold up for long because there's no Jack or Juliet to go back in time and blow up the atomic bomb that stops the plane from crashing and creates the alternate timeline. They'll have to address that in some way, the alternative reality could actually collapse if there isn't some Faraday/Alpert/Jacob/Desmond/Wizard of Oz figure to right it.

I'm not sure it'll actually converge with the existing timeline we're seeing on the Island though.

you already said that

say it again

i bet you six million dollars it will converge in some way

one of the obstacles is the 3 year gap between the alt line and the island as we're now seeing it. they could go a weird route where everyone from 815 ends up dead anyway by 2007. this would be simpler than trying to merge the lines but maybe less satisfying.

giving them the benefit of the doubt like i did Ronald D Moore (yeah and look how that worked out ha ha).

There's been enough unsubtle hinting from Cuse and Lindelof that there be a merge of some kind - they said this off the bat so to assuage viewer fears that the sideways timeline wouldn't go anywhere or that the existing continuity would be overwritten or erased.

honestly they can do what they want with the timelines just don't give us another episode as crappy as last week's

watched Tabula Rasa again last night and Kate is actually great in it

season 1 Kate was so awesome. I think her character started to suck around the time of the episode w/ the horse. always the goddamn horse.

is that the toy plane episode?

You won't be saying that when the horse magically stops the bomb from ever blowing up.

or when the horse singlehoofedly reconciles the timelines

not the toy plane one. its episode 3 where she's living on that farm in the outback.