Lost Season 6 - RE: LA X

Thinking about it more--While Jacob was alive, Smokey must have been enslaved to him, and to the Others as well(to an extent), which is why Ben was able to use him to take out Widmore's men. If Smokey had no choice in the matter, then he could still be in league with Widmore (or at least not hostile to him.) Ben may or may not have known that Smokey was Jacob's enemy--probably thought of it as a dangerous force not to be used lightly. But Richard & Dogen must know that Jacob's death means that Smokey has been freed of its chains--thus all the freaking out at the Temple when they found out Jacob was dead.

It's very possible that Ben has been totally played and manipulated by Smokey Dude from the off.

Almost certainly. Up until Ben and Locke visited the cabin in S3, it was clear that Ben had never spoken to Jacob ever - so really, he never even met him until the S5 finale. The dude in the chair screaming "Help me!" was probably Smokey/Esau, right? Seems like all of the cabin appearance were in fact the nemesis and not Jacob, since every time Jacob appeared (as we saw in the flashbacks in the S5 finale) he appeared as himself.

no, the cabin was surrounded by that protective dust

btw dudes i started watching season 1 again (i'd only seen bits and pieces when it first aired) and it is RAD... every episode seems bigger and more widescreen and more momentous. still dig what the show's been up to lately but wow, it's never been that good since.

Who was it who broke the protective dust? Do we even know yet?

yeah it does seem to have lost that widescreen-ness about it - the only time you ever see them do that kind of cinematography now is in season finales. also i think it's because the show used to pose a lot of "big" questions - "where are we?" "who are we?" "fate or coincidence" etc. - and now they're bogged down with smaller questions like "what's richard's deal?", "is sayid jacob or the MIB?", "what's smokey?". xpost

You're probably right s1ocki, I thought Season 4 (Freighter/Widmore/Oceanic 6/Miles, Faraday, Frank, Charlotte/The Constant, The Economist, The Shape of Things to Come) came pretty close. Also S2 is a bit underrated, I think.

Roz, you're probably right too - I do miss those epic confrontations and larger questions. The funny thing is though the hardcore fans still demand a ton of these answers that we're never going to get (myself often included). Do we really need an exact explanation for what Smokey or the Numbers are, even? I think most of it can just be shuffled off like how Michael couldn't kill himself because the Island wouldn't let him... just gotta roll with it.

finally caught up btw. heck of a ride

Circle of ash could have been keeping smokey in the cabin rather than outside it

If it was Smokey Ben and Locke encountered when they first visited the cabin rather than Jacob, then yeah the ash would've been keeping him IN. But surely he was still able to roam the island in monster form during this time.

Either than or Jacob and blackshirt dude have been fighting for control of Smokey for some time. Jacob had the upper hand while he was imprisoned in the cabin but whoever broke the circle allowed him to escape.

Quite who Christian Shepherd is supposedly working for I have no idea.

the Christian shepherd thing is weird because it seems like he's either a) dead and smokey is faking him b) dead but like not dead and dislodged from time c) ?????

also WTF is happening with Claire

she's been hanging with Christian, has gone feral, is maybe "infected?"

I decided to rewatch every scene with Locke after the Ajira crash. Last night I rewatched "Dead Is Dead" from S5. This exchange of dialogue interests me:

Fake John Locke: "You don't like this, do you? Having to ask questions that you don't know the answers to. Blindly following someone in the hopes that they'll lead you to whatever it was that you were looking for."
Ben: "No John, I don't like it at all."
Fake John Locke: "Well, now you know what it was like to be me."

Is that John talking, or Smokey?

Watching these episodes, it seems pretty clear that Christian and Locke are both the same person to me. They're working to achieve the same goals. But it's interesting how much Smokey embodies Christian, Alex, Locke, etc. when he takes their form. When Christian asks Locke to say hello to his son, he really seems like he means it.

Also, if Christian can appear to Jack off-island, doesn't that mean that Smokey isn't bound by the island? Also, at what point did the ash ring around Jacob's cabin get compromised?

just Smokey maintaing the pretense i guess

It seems like Smokey has access to all the deceased person's memories and uses them to manipulate the living.

Also, if Christian can appear to Jack off-island, doesn't that mean that Smokey isn't bound by the island?

did Smokey really appear or was Jack just going through the same thing as Hurley? does Hurley really see dead people or is he actually crazy?

was jack seeing Christian the "same" as hurley seeing dead people all the time?

xp!

can't remember if this has already been pointed out upthread but it seems like "infection" seems to be different from FakeLocke, FakeAlex etc in that the former needs a body, while the latter just needs the body to be dead. so the infection's maybe not Smokey, but it could be Smokey's way of assembling an army. (an army of zombies?!)

the infection also seems to affect those who are near death like sayid and claire (seems like she might have died in the explosion at the barracks?). i remember miles acting weird around her then, the same way he acted weird around sayid - like he couldn't be sure whether they were dead or alive or something else.

hmmm

maybe hurleys q to sayid (r u a zombie) is ~foreshadowing~

i was only joking w/ the zombies comment. pretty sure that line wasn't serious either - the writers joke about season 7 being zombie season all the time.

Not to jinx it but is there any kind of resolution that wouldn't end up being unsatisfactory? I'm fine with alien smokey zombie army intergalactic chess game between egyptian gods, but I can't imagine this would placate the largely non-SF-y fan base.

simple answer, no.

I feel fairly certain that Jack and Kate will both live, which bums me out.

miles purpose on the island (and the show) has yet to be fully realized. that will be exciting.

what about lapedis? is he just Everyman proxy or will he eventually assume some mythic importance?

Why are Jack and Kate untouchable?

cause they are adam and eve

Oh then they will definitely die then!

everyone dies.

miles purpose on the island (and the show) has yet to be fully realized. that will be exciting.

I think his purpose is to talk to dead people, and thereby point the main cast in the right direction. I'll be surprised if it's much more than that, and totally expect him to die.

Why are Jack and Kate untouchable?

Because the showrunners are trying to please two masters -- nerds and rubes -- and the rubes will be totally pissed if the "stars" die at the end of the show.

Still think Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve.

I dunno. Time travel and parallel universes do not strike me as rube-friendly overtures. I'll bet that Hurley outlives Jack or Kate or both.

Time travel and parallel universes are nerd-service.

Kate, Hurley, Jin, Sun, and Aaron will all live. Sawyer and Sayid are the only main cast people who might die. Locke is already dead, but sideways Locke might Live.

The parallel universe thing complicates things but I think the timelines will unify at some point.

I forgot to write Jack into the first group but I think he'll live as well. He is the person in the cast who Learns a Valuable Lesson.

Not sure why I capitalized Live.

u didn't

oh u did

The island capitalized it.

Still think Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve

altho there's a good chance they got zapped back to 2007 with everyone else, along with vincent of course.

I assume they did!

I think the writers already gave them their ending.

"Kate, Hurley, Jin, Sun, and Aaron will all live"
If you throw Jack into this, this is a mighty brave wager! This is a series that shoots kids!

This is a series that shoots kids!

This is a series where even when a kid is shot in the chest, he still lives.

yeah but the kid lived

I think the writers already gave them their ending.

they always said the dog would survive until the end tho, so i guess vincent can't have stayed in the 70s.

they always said the dog would survive until the end tho, so i guess vincent can't have stayed in the 70s.

They've lied about stuff before.

lying about whether a dog lives or dies is really going too far

"i guess you finally found your loophole"

"WOOF"