The (Now-Overrated) ILX Top 100 Films of the 2000s Poll Results

So how many films on the list have people now read (usually bogus) conservative messages into? If only Michael Medved realised how much Judeo-Christian, Randian, pro-life propaganda Hollywood was pumping out, he could relax a little.

From what I remember of the film every other scene was all silk upholstery and peeled grapes so yeah why would they pick such a shitty place for the birth?

yeah there is definitely christian symbolism but... i got over it

randian animated kids movies let's not forget

at this point i assume there isn't a film sarahel isn't wrong about

at this point i assume there isn't a film sarahel isn't wrong about

― Mordy, Friday, February 12, 2010 12:32 PM (1 second ago) Bookmark

history mayne likes this

how is it a shaky reading - because there's not a flashing sign saying "Nazareth" or something so obvious a retard would see it? The mind-numbing literalism of some of folks' posts here is just really incredible. Are you serious or are you trolling?

movie would be seriously improved by a neon nazareth sign imo, mayeb the only improvement i could suggest

at this point i assume there isn't a film sarahel isn't wrong about

― Mordy, Friday, February 12, 2010 6:32 AM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark

Says the guy who voted Garden State at #4

sarahel, it is a Christian metaphor and noticing that doesn't explain why that's a bad thing, or heavy handed. does Paradise Lost blow too? cause that's got a lot of god stuff in it

uh, in reverse order Fetchboy

just checked wiki - she has the baby in some shabby apartment...there may have been a person trained in midwifery involved

oops, read yr ballot backwards, still at 37. wtf

sarahel- where would you rather the kid had been born, and to whom?

sarahel, your readings are pretty consistently, ah, idiosyncratic

garden state at 37 is more wtf than any reading of CoM tho for sure

my last 10 slots were all random. tbh, i went through the noms list, picked a bunch of films i enjoyed, and put them in kinda something of an order. i'd say Pan's Labyrinth was the last film on my ballot that I deliberated over the choice of spot

I'm not saying the movie blows. I said I liked it. I just didn't find the obvious Christian metaphor terribly imaginative or appealing. That is not the same as saying "OMG Christianity kill kill kill."

there are so many things they could have added to make it a bad christian parallel: three wise men, idk, i didn't go to bible school, like a star guiding them there? in what way is clive owen like joseph, the black girl like mary? none of this adds up. oddly enough, the first child to have been born in decades is a sign of hope and part of the film's political point is that s/he is low-born. have fun expunging all christanity from western culture! (sorry bergman, adios fellini, ba-bye late-period godard.)

pan's labyrinth had some pretty obvious pagan imagery in it...deserves to be destroyed imo

how is it a shaky reading - because there's not a flashing sign saying "Nazareth" or something so obvious a retard would see it? The mind-numbing literalism of some of folks' posts here is just really incredible. Are you serious or are you trolling?

― sarahel, Friday, February 12, 2010 7:32 AM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

sarahel is any birth in lowly circumstances a reference to jesus' birth (and, look, i would actually be ok with you saying yes, it is!)

it's Jungian. all low births point to the same image. lucky for us, that image also points somewhere more distant into myth+symbol so it's not really Christian.

im saying--its fine to argue that all low births are christs birth--but then its NOT HEAVY-HANDED

ok, but how about the part when the baby grows up and gives the "sermon on the mount" -- that was kinda heavy-handed right?

ok, i retract using the word "hate" earlier. I did enjoy it. I'll basically just stick with Sarahel's last post.

it would also be great if we had more examples of 'heavy-handed religious references'

other than 'the baby was born in lowly circumstances'

can't believe the black girl didn't consider having an abortion

(typing this i realize some1 must have done this one upthread but fuck it)

the ship they are heading towards was called Tomorrow for god's sake. i'd think that would be the subject of heavy-handed accusations

(btw, i wrote god's sake in my post. that's a religion reference iirc)

yeah but you know the black girl was secretly an oppressed middle class working hero so it okay for her to assert her power xp

The baby is obviously going to grow up into a John Galt figure

maybe katherine heigl and seth rogen actually DIDN'T have sex? huh?

and that beardo guy is p biblical rite?

can't believe the black girl didn't consider having an abortion

(typing this i realize some1 must have done this one upthread but fuck it)

― V-E-R-Y (history mayne), Friday, February 12, 2010 12:41 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah Eric or Edward did it.

in what way is clive owen like joseph, the black girl like mary?

Uh - Clive Owen is the male companion that travels with the mother of the miracle child, and the black girl gives birth to the miracle child?

oddly enough, the first child to have been born in decades is a sign of hope and part of the film's political point is that s/he is low-born.

Sure - but that doesn't mean that it isn't also an obvious reference to the birth of Jesus.

have fun expunging all christanity from western culture!

Wow, you just aren't paying attention at all, are you? Did I say anything to that effect? No. For someone working towards an advanced degree, your reading comprehension is pretty shitty, dude.

Alright, I'll watch it tomorrow and see if there was any basis for me originally walking away from it the first time feeling like there was more than just a couple happenstance references to xianity.

xp- i think the expunging comment was in response to my originally half-assed anti-xianish comments.

even if the thing had tons of Christian references i don't see the problem. religion has a really important literary tradition. it'd feel more bullshit to me if a film dealing with the themes of Children of Men didn't deal with religion -- at the very least on a symbolic level.

hey sarahel just one more time--how exactly is the imagery and reference 'heavy-handed'?

can you give me some examples of religious reference that is not 'heavy-handed'?

If you actually had the bad taste to include Garden State on your ballot, at least have the balls to defend that choice.

xp max - Mordy makes a good point when he says that the lowly birth of the savior/hero figure is a common trope in myth and predates Christianity, but considering the prevalence of Christianity in Western Culture, esp. in America, its historical influence of it and its imagery, it's hard for me not to see it as a Christian reference. That doesn't mean that it's solely a Christian reference, or that it's propaganda, or that I think the script should be changed to "expunge" anything that could be viewed as a Christian reference.

Clive Owen is the male companion that travels with the mother of the miracle child

guided by an angel?

obvious reference to the birth of Jesus.

apart from the stable and... the story itself, how is it "obvious"? could have been a LOT obvious-er.

xp it's a fun film and i don't hate it? i quote the, "i haven't lied all week / really? / no" line often enough. i don't passionately love it enough to defend it, but i never got into the backlash thing and i don't see it as the Evil Zach Braff Shins Indie Twee whatever archetype it supposedly has become. it's fun, i love Natalie Portman, and i don't even hate Zach Braff. i thought the first few seasons of Scrubs were fun.

it could have been a lot more obvious, sure - it could have been a Mel Gibson movie.

xp max - Mordy makes a good point when he says that the lowly birth of the savior/hero figure is a common trope in myth and predates Christianity, but considering the prevalence of Christianity in Western Culture, esp. in America, its historical influence of it and its imagery, it's hard for me not to see it as a Christian reference. That doesn't mean that it's solely a Christian reference, or that it's propaganda, or that I think the script should be changed to "expunge" anything that could be viewed as a Christian reference.

― sarahel, Friday, February 12, 2010 7:51 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

youre not answering my question--i dont have a problem with reading the lowly birth as a reference to jesus--what i dont see is how its "heavy-handed"

birth scene at the beginning of 'parfum' is a reference to jesus

it seems to me that sarahel has hang-ups about religion, which is totally cool, but should just admit that instead of pretending like those personal hang-ups can lead to an insightful reading of the film

most of ilx has hangups about religion?

clearly not that much of a hang-up since CoM came in 2nd place in the poll

it's heavy-handed because it's such a big deal. It's heavy-handed because of all the trials and tribulations it takes them to get there. It's heavy-handed in the awe the other people have for the child. Yes, it is perfectly logical in the context of the narrative, but to me, that's an overly simplistic way to look at it.

...