The (Now-Overrated) ILX Top 100 Films of the 2000s Poll Results

the manger thing was pretty ham-fisted. I didn't automatically equate that with Christian propaganda, but it made me like the movie less.

the pink floyd symbol was pretty symbolic I thought

cmon mayng-er

kinda thought collateral was a lock

Cruise better in his high school play

Who knows, maybe it's just some catholics-anonymous shit I need to get through, but I guarantee you if I watched that film with my mom she'd think it was a bad movie and too violent until the manger scene would totally change her perspective on it.
xpost- am i really just imagining a scene in which a miracle birth takes place in a stable? did that not happen?

what is the 'manger thing' pls

haha yes you are imagining that

the black girl is first seen in a stable, yes

yr moms misreading of the film shouldnt affect yr own take on it imo

Alright, maybe I shd just CIO go watch the damn thing again. The car scene really was one of the best of the decade.

the girl also jokes to Owen that she's a virgin.

Hey guys, yr anti-Christian bigotry is showing.

^^ yeah this is what i mean by subverting the christ-parallel

she has the kid in the refugee/deportation camp, which is enough reference to the lowly conditions of the birth of Jesus for me to view it as heavy-handed symbolism. The movie had parts I liked; I didn't dislike CofM, but it's nowhere near one of the best films of the decade.

that scene where clive owen turns the thames into a river of franzia and all the oppressed immigrants party down on the banks was pretty bullshit though...otherwise it was an excellent movie

what was ham-fisted about it?

she has the kid in the refugee/deportation camp, which is enough reference to the lowly conditions of the birth of Jesus for me to view it as heavy-handed symbolism.

you are mental

she has the kid in the refugee/deportation camp, which is enough reference to the lowly conditions of the birth of Jesus for me to view it as heavy-handed symbolism.

...

you are mental

you are oblivious

in the spirit of engagement im ok with you making the extremely dubious parallel of "shitty refugee camp" and "manger in nazareth" but its such a shaky reading its totally bizarre to call it "heavy-handed"

i can imagine ilx reaction if the kid was born in a palace how heavy handed would that symbolism be for you?

I don't know, I may be misremembering some things, but I don't think I'm THAT bitter of an ex-xian to have completely made-up an impression of xian symbolism out of nowhere.

tbh i DON'T EVEN SEE THE PROBLEM if it is a parallel. omg trace of christianity kill kill.

So how many films on the list have people now read (usually bogus) conservative messages into? If only Michael Medved realised how much Judeo-Christian, Randian, pro-life propaganda Hollywood was pumping out, he could relax a little.

From what I remember of the film every other scene was all silk upholstery and peeled grapes so yeah why would they pick such a shitty place for the birth?

yeah there is definitely christian symbolism but... i got over it

randian animated kids movies let's not forget

at this point i assume there isn't a film sarahel isn't wrong about

at this point i assume there isn't a film sarahel isn't wrong about

― Mordy, Friday, February 12, 2010 12:32 PM (1 second ago) Bookmark

history mayne likes this

how is it a shaky reading - because there's not a flashing sign saying "Nazareth" or something so obvious a retard would see it? The mind-numbing literalism of some of folks' posts here is just really incredible. Are you serious or are you trolling?

movie would be seriously improved by a neon nazareth sign imo, mayeb the only improvement i could suggest

at this point i assume there isn't a film sarahel isn't wrong about

― Mordy, Friday, February 12, 2010 6:32 AM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark

Says the guy who voted Garden State at #4

sarahel, it is a Christian metaphor and noticing that doesn't explain why that's a bad thing, or heavy handed. does Paradise Lost blow too? cause that's got a lot of god stuff in it

uh, in reverse order Fetchboy

just checked wiki - she has the baby in some shabby apartment...there may have been a person trained in midwifery involved

oops, read yr ballot backwards, still at 37. wtf

sarahel- where would you rather the kid had been born, and to whom?

sarahel, your readings are pretty consistently, ah, idiosyncratic

garden state at 37 is more wtf than any reading of CoM tho for sure

my last 10 slots were all random. tbh, i went through the noms list, picked a bunch of films i enjoyed, and put them in kinda something of an order. i'd say Pan's Labyrinth was the last film on my ballot that I deliberated over the choice of spot

I'm not saying the movie blows. I said I liked it. I just didn't find the obvious Christian metaphor terribly imaginative or appealing. That is not the same as saying "OMG Christianity kill kill kill."

there are so many things they could have added to make it a bad christian parallel: three wise men, idk, i didn't go to bible school, like a star guiding them there? in what way is clive owen like joseph, the black girl like mary? none of this adds up. oddly enough, the first child to have been born in decades is a sign of hope and part of the film's political point is that s/he is low-born. have fun expunging all christanity from western culture! (sorry bergman, adios fellini, ba-bye late-period godard.)

pan's labyrinth had some pretty obvious pagan imagery in it...deserves to be destroyed imo

how is it a shaky reading - because there's not a flashing sign saying "Nazareth" or something so obvious a retard would see it? The mind-numbing literalism of some of folks' posts here is just really incredible. Are you serious or are you trolling?

― sarahel, Friday, February 12, 2010 7:32 AM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

sarahel is any birth in lowly circumstances a reference to jesus' birth (and, look, i would actually be ok with you saying yes, it is!)

it's Jungian. all low births point to the same image. lucky for us, that image also points somewhere more distant into myth+symbol so it's not really Christian.

im saying--its fine to argue that all low births are christs birth--but then its NOT HEAVY-HANDED

ok, but how about the part when the baby grows up and gives the "sermon on the mount" -- that was kinda heavy-handed right?

ok, i retract using the word "hate" earlier. I did enjoy it. I'll basically just stick with Sarahel's last post.

it would also be great if we had more examples of 'heavy-handed religious references'

other than 'the baby was born in lowly circumstances'

can't believe the black girl didn't consider having an abortion

(typing this i realize some1 must have done this one upthread but fuck it)

the ship they are heading towards was called Tomorrow for god's sake. i'd think that would be the subject of heavy-handed accusations

(btw, i wrote god's sake in my post. that's a religion reference iirc)